The Leaded Bore From Hell, Part III

M

MAD DOG

New member
The latest page in the never ending saga of the "Leaded Bore From Hell" has our protagonist (moi) in a deadly embrace with one very fouled rifle and a new brace of stainless steel brushes. I have opted for the Big Medicine now, and have uncorked a skull and crossed bones bottle of very nasty cleaning solution that could double as a dandy drain cleaner.
Watch out Springfield, here it comes!

Obviously, the Foul Out System mentioned in our last episode has failed to remove to embeddded crud in the bore. It was a fully functioning unit, and had just successfuly de leaded a pistol some minutes before. We tried both copper and lead solutions in the rifle, with no noticeable effect.

I am convinced that this is no fault of the Foul out, but rather due to the unusual constituents of whatever the bullet material/powder fouling/godknowswhat that has acrued in the barrel.

I will clean it now with the nasty stuff, simply because I need to know if there is actually a bore left in there somewhere.
This is primarily to satisfy my own morbid curiousity, and I fully realize that I may have to replace the barrel in order to achieve any decent results in the long run.

BTW, I tried the Mercury trick, and it didn't work either.
I opted not to use the White Vinegar procedure, as it proved to be fairly corrosive to 4140, and removed/damaged bluing wherever it wet to it.
 
I am shocked that the Foul Out failed. You may have to rebarrel the poor thing.
When you strated the thread, I didn't know it was a pretty Springfield sporter. Would you describe it for us in detail again?
 
Whatever is in that bore is something more than lead. TLOK: The Lord Only Knows!

If you can get enough of the grunge to make any kind of sample, give it to a high school chemistry teacher. Maybe he could let his kids try to analyze it...

good luck!

Art
 
MAD DOG, Maybe that isn't a barrel afterall. Or at least it won't be when you're done with it :D Perhaps its just an old piece of small diameter industrial waste pipe.
What caliber are you up to Now? :D
KEEP STROKIN

------------------
"Keep shootin till they quit floppin"
The Wife 2/2000
 
mcshot, he's either already up to an 8mm-'06, or he's gonna be the first man in history to create .35 Whelen with a cleaning rod!

:), Art
 
It's obvious that youdon't have lead or any one of the three would have taken care of that little matter. If I were to guess I would say your barrel shows the results of corrosive primers. Either way you has gone this far go the last mile and remove the barrel and section it so you can see it through a 60X microscope.
 
After an initial session with the stainless steel brush and Shooters Choice Black Powder Bore Cleaning Gel, I have begun to remove some serious quantity of fouling from the bore for the first time.
I noticed that the fouling floating so flagrantly in the bore cleaning gel had a distinctly metallic swirled look to it, and started wondering if it might be steel or iron.
I put a magnet under the patch, and LO! the swirleys disappeared into the patch, having been sucked down through the gel.
I am now convinced that the reason the bronze brushes were not removing anything is that they were too soft to attack the steel/iron fouling, evidently the result of much steel jacketed ammo having been fired through the weapon.
This handily explains the failure of the Foul Out system, and other inconsistencies we have noted in the cleaning process.

I am making some progress now, and once I am down to bare bore we will see what, if any, sort of accuracy remains in the old girl.
Thank you all for your help and interest in the weapon and her problems.

To answer the question about the description of the weapon:
It is a very nice looking 1903 Springfield, with suitably high serial number to be of interest as a reliable weapon platform.
The stock is a rather plainly figured piece of oil finished walnut with very straight grain. It has a nice Montecarlo shadowlined cheekpiece, but sufficient drop at the heel to allow the use of the Lyman steel receiver sight (in pristine condition) and the banded ramp front sight blade. The butt is finished in a well fitted checkered steel, curved plate. The bluing and finish on the weapon are excellent, except for the floorplate, which needs to be redone as it is a bit worn.
It has a very nice, crisp single stage trigger, and a Buehler type low swing safety. Some idiot drilled some holes in the receiver to accomodate one of the obsolete cantilevered scope mounts popular in the early 1950s, but these are partially concealed by the stock, which was evidently fitted after the drill job. The inletting on the stock was done well and patiently, as it is very snugly fit and shows no signs of having been done wrong at all. It is not freefloated, but rather pressure fit throughout. The barrel is tied into the fore end with a secondary recoil lug as was popular in those days.
The stock has an ebony grip cap and fore end tip, with a nice narrow contour to the forend. The weapon fits me perfectly, and I consider it quite a prize even if I eventually need to rebarrel it.
My requirement is for the rifle to shoot 1.5 MOA with the current barrel, which is suitably adequate for the hunting purposes that the weapon is configured for. Failing that, I will rebarrel.

I live in Prescott Valley, Arizona. I am a professional knifemaker and erstwhile gun plumber in my "spare" time.
 
Could it be tin fouling? After the First World War, researchers played with tin as a way to reduce copper fouling: including tin with the powder, plating the projectiles, and including it in the jacket alloy. For instance, Winchester's original Luballoy was a specific copper-tin alloy for jackets.
 
Since tin is NOT ferromagnetic, it would not have been attracted to the magnet.
I therefore doubt that much, if any of the fouling material is tin.

I am taking a lot of black nasty stuff out of the bore, and continue to get black patches after scrubbing with the SS brush and Shooters Choice bore gel for two hours tonight.
I have now worn out one SS brush, and have started on the second one. I deemed the first to be worn out when the weight of the rod would push it through the bore...
As God is my witness, I have NEVER seen anything even remotely like this.
I have even cleaned Afghani .303 Enfields that were fouled with everything from camel crap to gravel, and once a 12ga shotgun that had mud wasp nests in the bore, but this takes the cake for tough fouling.

On a brighter/darker note, I am now seeing either:
A) pitting
B) low spots in the fouling :)

As fouled as it still is, I am hoping that it is "B", but there is much cleaning to do before I know for sure.
 
Maddog. Just a thought. Have you tried
MP-7 bore cleaner? I have an old (1911 vintage) 94 Winchester that had a black bore from corrosive priming. The trifling appeared almost non-existant, and like you tried eveything I could think of, including a stainless steel brush. Anyway, I got some MP-7 at a gun show, and figured what the hell, I'd tried everything else. It took about two hours worth of work, but now the bore is grey, and there is fairly sharp rifling. The rifle shoots even better now.
I literally soaked the barrel with the stuff and let it sit for about 5 minutes, then I scrubbed for about 2 minutes, dried the bore and repeated the process. Your barrel sounds a bit worse than mine was, but it would be worth a try.
Paul B.
 
Desperate times call for desperate measures, so have you considiered taking it to the local engine shop and hot-tanking it? The solution consists of an extended bath in a hot, caustic solution of who-knows-what. This treatment will remove years of baked on oil and water-jacket deposits, so maybe it'll make a dent in whatever garbage is clogging your fine weapon. If it truly is steel jacket remnants, I guess this treatment won't do squat, but it's just a thought.
 
WARNING WARNING
Danger, Will Robinson!

About the hot tanking:
I just spent 2 days (with more to go) at a USAF Corrosion Conference and one of the big raging discussions going on NOW is about aqueous parts washers, which is a fancy way to say hot soapy water washing machine.

Some detergents, apparently at higher temps in hot water, can cause hydrogen embrittlement of high-strength steels. Part of the discussion centered on the fact that some of the standards the manufacturers go by only test for HE at room temperature. At hotter temps the effects can be much different from room temp.

The issue is considered so serious that an across the board ban on aqueous parts washers on USAF aircraft landing gear has already been recommended and broadcast via message. (the interim solution is use room temp Mil-PRF-87937 detergent or Mil-PRF-680 solvent based cleaner)

I dunno what the local hot tank shop uses but I would say this should only be considered as a last resort. Might be overreacting but a cracked auto part is one thing. A barrel going kablooey is too close to home IMHO.

Just my opinion.

Edmund
 
Maddog. You can order MP-7 at the source.

Windfalls Distributing, INC.
P.O. Box 54988
Phoenix, AZ 85078
Ph: 1-800-YES-4MP7
I got the quartsize, but they have smaller sizes.
Paul B.
 
Ah,

Sorry if I gave potentially dangerous advice and thank you for correcting me. I guess the comparison isn't valid because an engine block is only cast iron whereas a barrel is a forging (I would hope!) Plus, the pressures in a barrel would probably far exceed those even in a combusting cylinder.
 
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