The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty

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Black_Iron

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Friends and Countrymen,

I have recently come across and studied the infamous Israeli bombing of the US intelligence ship, Liberty. I have also smelled Israel's hand in such events as the Iraq war for example, or the "War on Terror". 200 American soldiers died in an attack just as hostile and intentional as Sept. 11. But since it was Jews and not Arabs who perpetrated it, the American congressman who stood up against it were angrily branded as being "anti-Semitic". Your opinions on this?

Not only that, I feel as if our troops are fighting a proxy war for Israel under the guidance of that spineless Israeli-owned worm, Paul Wolfowitz. Iran is next, I hear.

WASHINGTON REPORT ON MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS
January/February 2002-Vol. XXI, No.. 1

Material from the WASHINGTON REPORT ON MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS may be reprinted without charge with attribution to WASHINGTON REPORT ON MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS. Bylined material must also be attributed to the author. This release does not apply to photographs, cartoons or reprints from other publications.

Address: P.O. Box 53062 Washington, D.C. 53062

Telephone: 202 939-6050

REFUSAL TO INVESTIGATE ISRAEL'S 1967 ATTACK ON USS LIBERTY A "NO-BRAINER" ONE LEGISLATOR'S STORY

SIDEBAR: I WAS (AND AM) CONSIDERING LEAVING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OVER THIS ISSUE.

By Marlin Schneider


In the summer of 1998 I received an e-mail from a Wisconsin citizen in Oshkosh who asked all the members of the Wisconsin legislature to see if anyone would introduce a resolution requesting Congress to investigate an attack by the Israelis in 1967 on a ship called the USS LIBERTY. This seemed tolike a no-brainer that would be supported by Wisconsin veterans wanting to help another group of veterans denied their right to petition their government for a redress of grievances. I looked into the issue a bit and discovered that, indeed the sjip had been attacked, an apology offered, reparations paid - but that the veterans of that ship were still being denied a full-scale congressional investigation, which they believed necessary to finally bring closure to the issue.

The LIBERTY veterans believed that the attack on their ship was deliberate and not friendly fire, and that it had been covered up by the United States Navy and the State Department for years because of reprisals by influential people who would bring down any politician with the audacity to ask questions about the attack. Some of the people who later talked to me both within and outside our own capitol warned me to beware of massive political contributions against me and even potential assassination. I laughed that off because I have never been anti-Israel and, in fact, the people who got me to run in 1970 were Jewish constituents whom I admired because in the 1950's they had taken on Sen. Joseph McCarthy right here in central Wisconsin. Moreover, one of my former assistants was the daughter of a rabbi incarcerated at Buchenwald who now works for a Jewish organization in New York City.

I also thought that a lowly state legislator was too small a potato for anyone to care much about.

In my naivite I learned that the only "no-brainer" around here was me.. The resolution was introduced in the 1999-2000 session and sent to our committee on Veterans and Military Affairs. It got a unanimous vote in committee after they heard testimony about the incident. Curiously, however, it suddenly got held up in the Rules Committee by the Republican majority leader. I had promised the people who had asked me to introduce the legislation that I would make a motion to pull the bill from the Rules Committee if the majority leader wouldn't report it out. Little did I know the trouble this would cause me in the Democratic caucus. My Democratic colleagues became very angry with me for wanting to move this bill, and demanded that I not do so.

In my then-30 years in the Wisconsin Assembly, this was the first time I had heard anyone ask another member to go back on his or her word. I refused. I made the motion on the floor in the spring 2000 session and was soundly defeated by both sides of the aisle. After the 2000 elections, in a secret Democratic caucus, I was sacked as assistant Democratic leader and removed from a leadership position because I had had the audacity not to back down earlier that year. Set free from the constraints of “leadership,” I introduced the resolution again in the current session. This time, however, I toned down the rhetoric of the resolution to try and satisfy its critics. Alas, even that doesn't satisfy them. They do not want this matter investigated. They called me an “anti-Semite” and a “racist.” I told them that I would not accept that line of bull, and the words we had in caucus were very harsh. In November, on the floor of the Assembly, after I was once again even more soundly defeated, I told them I was (and am) considering leaving the Democratic Party over this issue. I could not in good faith faith support a party which cannot see fit to support to support me. Even more importantly, however, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans can see fit to provide this group of veterans their just due in seeking their Constitutional right to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

Amid all this rancor I had the most marvelous opportunity last summer to meet with five USS LIBERTY veterans in Grafton, Wisconsin, where a library is named in honor of the ship. I watched as men now in middle age still break down and cry over the events of 34 years ago. My colleagues told me that we should just forget this because it happened 34 years ago. I replied that I could not recall anyone saying that the Israelis should have just forgotten Adolf Eichmann because World War II had long since been over. To that I received no response. When I met with the survivors of the attack I told them that, if I had to go down, I could think of no better reason than to go down with the men of the USS LIBERTY.

Interestingly, one of those killed on the LIBERTY was from Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. One of the boys killed on the USS COLE was from Fond du Lac. Nobody said we shouldn’t have a full investigation of that terrorist act. On the day the Assembly took up the resolution on the LIBERTY we had taken up and passed a resolution on Puerto Rico and had a group of former Marines from Fond du Lac present the colors. We then passed a resolution honoring the members of our Assembly who also are serving or who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces. Such patriotism does not seem to extend to the veterans of the USS LIBERTY.

It is very hard to deal with this issue because the press will not cover it. Even when I wrote to each and every major veterans organization, including the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, I did not get even the courtesy of a response. From Wisconsin’s congressional delegation I either received State Department drivel, or mostly no response at all. One member did express an interest and I intend to share The History Channel’s report on the LIBERTY with him. I received no response when I wrote to the previous Israeli government. When I wrote to Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, who hosted a meeting of LIBERTY survivors, and to the majority leader of the Minnesota Senate I likewise was stone-walled, and am still awaiting a response. Maybe Jesse just doesn’t correspond with cheeseheads.

I am very angry about this. These were American sailors. They are still loyal to their country. Their country is disloyal to them. History is replete with examples of cover-uo and scapegoating by those in power. Pearl Harbor, the USS INDINAPOLIS, the USS IOWA, the USS STARK, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, the USS PUEBLO - all are examples of scapegoating or flat out cover-up. The USS LIBERTY is just the worst example. These men and their families deserve as much and respect and honor and love as all others who have served our country Their country - especially those who “serve” in the Congress of the United States - doesn’t have the guts to stand up for them. These sailors and intelligence officers deserve “the love and thanks of man and woman.” The summer soldiers and the phony sunshine patriots in legislative bodies from Madison to Washington deserve nothing but contempt for letting them down.

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Marlin Schneider is a former assistant Democratic leader of the Wisconsin State Assembly.

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And on weapons of Mass Destruction, check this link.

Very good read on Israel's secret WMD program, so do it slowly and carefully.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

General Overview and Links:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

The Weapons program is fully exposed:

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Israel/
 
if you want to read more about the U.S.S. Liberty read the book "Body of Secrets" by James Bamford. it is chapter 7. a bunch of very brave men the got hung to dry by us and the Israelis
 
Not only that, I feel as if our troops are fighting a proxy war for Israel under the guidance of that spineless Israeli-owned worm, Paul Wolfowitz. Iran is next, I hear.
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The reasons are more complex than that. In reality, Hussein was marked for destruction because he attempted to kill Bush Sr. Not only that, Hussein's ability to hoodwink Schwarzkopf after the war (which allowed Hussein to defeat the Shiite uprising and remain in power) was a key reason Bush Sr failed to re-elect. The shine came right off his victory with Hussein firmly in power and thumbing his nose at us again.

There is also the fact that Hussein was a CIA asset in the 1980's that had gotten off his leash (called in the spy game, "blowback"). Since Hussein had been groomed under the Reagan and Bush I admins, he was a major embarrassment and had to be taken out of the picture.

Then, of course, there is that "oil" thing to consider.

I would never dispute the fact that US policy has always fallen over backwards to support Israel. No question about that.
 
Since we are in the "legal and political" section, . . . let's take the discussion just one step further.

Where does anyone think Israel would be today if it had not been for England originally and USA ever since? Gone, . . . history, . . . finished!

May I point out just a couple of things:

1) In the Bible we are told that eventually Israel is overwhelmed just before the end of the world and end of time.

2) We are admonished also by the Bible that anyone who upholds Israel, will be upheld by God.

3) The USA is not mentioned in the end times of scripture.

Therefore: sometime in our future, the USA will fall away from protecting Israel (and the boogey men will swoop in then). That, being our insurance policy in itself, will lead to our destruction.

Conclusion, . . . if you gotta do something for goodness sake, . . . uphold Israel. Can't go wrong doing that.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Yup.....
Imagine what Muslims could make of the USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655 on July 3, 1988 which resulted in the deaths of over 290 innocent passengers
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/vince.html .....Hmmmmm.

How about the US bombing of the Chinese Embassy?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/051000-102.htm ....really makes you think, don't it?

3) The USA is not mentioned in the end times of scripture.

Therefore: sometime in our future, the USA will fall away from protecting Israel (and the boogey men will swoop in then). That, being our insurance policy in itself, will lead to our destruction.
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Now I'm the first to admit that there are days when I have a difficult time separating cogent, rational argument from self-serving interpretation of a Book as enigmatic as Revelations, but I gotta tell ya......
Today is not one of those Days.
;)

Besides....according to this logic, the "End Days" can't occur until a couple of countries rename themselves "Gog" and "Magog". I feel safer already. :D
Rich
 
I wonder how many involved people are even alive to investigate in a 1967 incident? Perhaps that's why people though a 2000 investigation seemed... off base. Or crazy. Or anti-Israel. Of all ancient history to get whipped up about, this really seems like a topic with an underlying agenda.

Rich beat me to it with the Iranian airline shoot down. F-14s are advertised to have radar that can tell one Mig from another, but we shot down an airline? Pass the aluminum foil.


But if we do want to dredge the past for muck, I'd still like to get a good explanation for the Dresden fire bombing.
 
Interesting Handy, your comment on the bombing of Dresden.

Please read "Enola Gay and the Court of History" by Robert Newman. This book not only discusses the necessary atomic bomb decisions, but the political reasons for the unnecessary fire bombing of other cities, especially German ones.

I often find it fascinating and sad what we as humans attribute to conspiracy that incompetence and paranoia more aptly explains.
 
I personally feel we give the Israeli's too little leeway in their operations. We should arm them better, and turn them loose.
 
It was war. It was a mistake
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No, every veteran on that boat (that is still alive) can testify that it wasn't a mistake, that the Israeli attackers clearly saw the American flag hung out, etc. The evidence bears out that it was no mistake, if you believe the veterans (I do). It's odd to say the least. What I find far more unforgiveable, however, is the Japanese's horrific treatment of American POWs in the Phillipines during WWII, for which THEY HAVE NEVER APOLOGIZED.
 
In the documentary on the subject of the USS Liberty I saw in Europe many years ago, the crew members they interviewed left no doubt that the Israeli forces could not have mistaken the Liberty for anything other than it was. And from their evidence it is clear than those who attacked the ship made an effort to finish off those in the water as well. To say anything else, one just might as well say that all the surviving crew members lied.

It is significant that the sole Israeli representative was a man that was not old enough to have served in the IDF at the time, and therefore had no firsthand knowledge whatsoever of the event. He was merely a mouthpiece for the "mistake".

That particular work, and all the material still presented by some of the survivors leaves no doubt at all that this could not have been a "mistake". As far as a motive, that is for the Israeli government to answer for. I wonder what the signal traffic was that the Israelis were so worried about being intercepted.
 
what exactly did they confuse it for? how is it a mistake?
"samuel, what is that in the water?"
"i dont know benjamin, perhaps its a large grey camel"
 
"Rich beat me to it with the Iranian airline shoot down. F-14s are advertised to have radar that can tell one Mig from another, but we shot down an airline? Pass the aluminum foil."

Handy, the USS Vincennes shot the airbus down with defensive ship-to-air missles, not with F-14s. The airbus had no combat IFF system, and their normal acft beacon was inoperative for reasons we'll never know.
 
It wasn't an F-14

or any other warplane. The Iranian jetliner - in controlled airspace and under tower control from the field - was destroyed by a SAM fired by the USS Vincennes.

Its wonder-computers thought a commercial jetliner using IFF squawks CLIMBING out of the airport was a MIG that was DIVING to attack the ship. Just a little computer glitch..... :eek:

Note that this is NOT comparable to the attacks - as in plural - on USS Liberty OR the utter failure of the IDF to aid the stricken vessel. :barf:
 
I think some good points were raised here, despite the fact I don't see A.Jay Cristol as anything more than a tool for Jewish extremism.

I'll come back to the link posted by bad_Dad_brad since it's fairly long and there are a lot of issues to cover. I'm fairly surprised at the fact that some of you have taken the Israeli version hands-down. If they did do it on purpose, I feel America should condemn them as an enemy and cut off aid as well as come up with plans to contain and disarm Israel.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.h...outlook/2345393

Betrayal behind Israeli attack on U.S. ship
By ADM. THOMAS MOORER

After State Department officials and historians assembled in Washington, D.C., last week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history's most shocking cover-ups.

On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship -- the USS Liberty -- killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.

U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled, not once, but twice, through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I personally confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career.

To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of Israel's attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members.

A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity."

Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include:

· Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow.

Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat.

· Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.

· Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most seriously wounded.

As a result, our commission concluded that:

· There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew.

· In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States

· The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people.

· The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace.

What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services.

The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent of American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.

These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense.

Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government.

The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States.


Moorer was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff from 1970 to 1974. He is joined in the independent commission of inquiry by Gen. Ray Davis (recently deceased); Rear Adm. Merlin Staring; former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and Ambassador James Akins.
 
What rational reason would Israel have to bite the only hand that feeds it?
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This should serve as a basic guide:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

Over the next year, relations between the U.S. and Israel became strained over the Dimona reactor. The U.S. accepted Israel's assertions at face value publicly, but exerted pressure privately. Although Israel allowed a cursory inspection by well known American physicists Eugene Wigner and I. I. Rabi, Prime Minister Ben-Gurion consistently refused to allow regular international inspections. The final resolution between the U.S. and Israel was a commitment from Israel to use the facility for peaceful purposes, and to admit an U.S. inspection team twice a year. These inspections began in 1962 and continued until 1969. Inspectors saw only the above ground part of the buildings, not the many levels underground and the visit frequency was never more than once a year. The above ground areas had simulated control rooms, and access to the underground areas was kept hidden while the inspectors were present. Elevators leading to the secret underground plutonium reprocessing plant were actually bricked over.[23] Much of the information on these inspections and the political maneuvering around it has just been declassified.[24]
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Egypt attempted unsuccessfully to obtain nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union both before and after the Six-Day War. President Nasser received from the Soviet Union a questionable nuclear guarantee instead and declared that Egypt would develop its own nuclear program.[43 ] His rhetoric of 1965 and 1966 about preventive war and Israeli nuclear weapons coupled with overflights of the Dimona rector contributed to the tensions that led to war. The Egyptian Air Force claims to have first overflown Dimona and recognized the existence of a nuclear reactor in 1965.[44 ] Of the 50 American HAWK antiaircraft missiles in Israeli hands, half ringed Dimona by 1965.[45] Israel considered the Egyptian overflights of May 16, 1967 as possible pre-strike reconnaissance. One source lists such Egyptian overflights, along with United Nations peacekeeper withdrawal and Egyptian troop movements into the Sinai, as one of the three “tripwires” which would drive Israel to war.[46] There was an Egyptian military plan to attack Dimona at the start of any war but Nasser vetoed it.[47] He believed Israel would have the bomb in 1968.[48] Israel assembled two nuclear bombs and ten days later went to war.[49] Nasser's plan, if he had one, may have been to gain and consolidate territorial gains before Israel had a nuclear option.[50] He was two weeks too late.
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I also believe you should go into the cover-up of this Israeli crime by President Johnson.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xix/

The reasons are more complex than that. In reality, Hussein was marked for destruction because he attempted to kill Bush Sr. Not only that, Hussein's ability to hoodwink Schwarzkopf after the war (which allowed Hussein to defeat the Shiite uprising and remain in power) was a key reason Bush Sr failed to re-elect. The shine came right off his victory with Hussein firmly in power and thumbing his nose at us again.
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I totally agree with you that probably 75% of President Bush's motivation behind the war was to avenge former President Bush. However, it couldn't have happened without very key players setting the stage, who I think should resign, as they totally put Israeli hegemony and power before the lives of our troops, not to mention America and the prinicples it should be standing for.

Dwight,

I respect your religious views, but I believe they have very little to do with this discussion. The fact that the creation of Israel was based on theological pretext gives us what right to complain about "Muslim fanatics", when the real fanatics reside in "Tel Aviv"?

I do not support the creation of "Israel", and I believe that the situation in Palestine today more closely mirrors that of a long standing civil war where we have armed the real extremists to the teeth with weapons and nuclear technology. Waving flags or creating false institutions does little to dispel that fact. It was atrocious policies like these which led to the destruction of the twin towers.

Rich Lucibella,

Nice try, but straw man arguments just aren't going to cut it. Those incidents, while deserving their own thread and investigation, have nothing to do with Israel's actions concerning the U.S.S. Liberty.

Now I'm the first to admit that there are days when I have a difficult time separating cogent, rational argument from self-serving interpretation of a Book as enigmatic as Revelations, but I gotta tell ya......
Today is not one of those Days
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.

Thank you for admitting that, Rich.

For all of you who think this is "ancient history", the cover-up of these actions by our government and the continuing Israeli corruption of our public service certainly is not ancient history. Shows how very little respect you have for the lives of those soldiers. As well as the fact that Israel continues to recieve an excessive amount of money from our taxpayers.

US aid to Israel:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/IB85066.pdf

"Anti-Israel"? Give me a break, why exactly should we be "pro-Israel" and mindlessly follow whatever lies and propaganda they flood the media with?

lilly'sdad

I personally feel we give the Israeli's too little leeway in their operations. We should arm them better, and turn them loose.
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You're completely nuts.
 
No, every veteran on that boat (that is still alive) can testify that it wasn't a mistake
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Even the guys in the mess hall and engine room? Do they have Xray vision? Don't be silly. Only a few guys on deck can testify to seeing anything.
 
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