I'm fairly new here, been around maybe a couple weeks and seen some great posts. Seen some posts that bring up great points with little backing at times, but still posts that incited people to think. I'm all for potraying gun owners in a positive light. Actually wear gun clothing everywhere I go and do as many nice things for people as possible while doing it. I invite people over who don't vote our way and try to show them why they should. I'm doing only a portion of my part of being an American, the other is to be ever vigilant of the threat from government corruption, or tyranny. Where do I take up that sword and that fight? A few times a week via email to senators, reps, and newspapers. Why should the very speech I send to my reps not be the very speech I post here?
I've always been told the best way to insure a freedom stays free is to exercise it frequently. Talk of revolution, killing UN invaders, fighting a bloody conflict is free speech. Much like school prayer which was never really outlawed until just recently, if we simply stop practicing it, we will lose it totally. Are the talks we've had about these topics stirring? Yes. Are they relevant in todays climate? Yes. Is it talk that we may use to insure our continued freedom? Yes. Is it in fact the very thing our founding fathers insisted we use to insure the government was kept in it's place? Yes. So why on this board, dedicated to guns, would you ever wish to not allow that speech? We've been demonized and lied about in the press, slandered on the various boards of the net, potrayed as evil anti-constitutionist to the uninformed, called butchers and murderers by the soccer moms. We need a board to vent, express ideas, and yes, perhaps hopefully strike fear into the government. Our founding fathers would have expected no less. What if the papers of their time had refused to print their articles, if publishers refused to print Thomas Paines"Commom Sense", what then TFL? Would we still be housing men with redcoats in our homes?
It's time to let public America know where we stand. Not just in defense of the 2nd, but in defense of the whole Bill. It's time they know we stand in awe of the power of the constitution, and that we believe every word written in the Declaration of Independance. It's time that Big Brother knows, we will band together and fight to insure our freedoms remain free, our lives remain ours to live, our voice remains ours to voice. Never in recent memory have I seen more people in upheaval over what to do of government abuses. Somebody finally realized it's not just about guns, or the Waco evidence wouldn't have come out. People realize our freedom is at stake. Have you been to a gunshow lately? Have you seen the type of people going and buying guns? It's got little to do with Y2K and everything to do with fear of government.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their 'constitutional' right of amending it or their 'revolutionary' right to dismember or overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln, First inaugural address, March 4, 1861.
"Fear is the foundation of most governments..."John Adams, "Thoughts on Government", 1776.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).
TFL, with those quotes in mind I ask you to reconsider your current stance. I don't think you will find a soul among us who thinks every police officer is a tyrants helper, or a threat to the constitution. Neither will you find one of us who thinks the same of all soldiers. But I do believe you will find among us, among those same two groups, individuals who are willing to take the life of a tyrants helper if they should decide to remove our guns. I have friends in local, state, and federal law enforcement, and they know where they stand. If these men take offense to the fact that I will try to kill them if they attempt to take my guns, then perhaps we are better off without them here. To many of us have had to many conversations like I have of late with police and military who simply say, if an order comes I follow it. Aren't we all to be Americans first and foremost, and respect all parts of the constitution? Why should you restrict us from our defense of liberty? Maybe it's a blessing in disguise that law enforcement and government are reading this, the general public at large. Maybe it's time they all see us for what we truly are, the most powerful lobby ever created, the only lobby written into the Bill of Rights that is insured of it's voice being heard. Even if it is one shot at a time.
I feel like you see those of us with strong rhetoric as a little less American than others who sit quietly and watch things unfold, I contend it's otherwise. When you look back to the quotes of 1776, the loudest voice was the one most listened to and it was Thomas Jefferson, I ask you today not to silence the voice of the Thomas Jeffersons of this board.
As to foul language, I agree it should be censored out, we can show our outrage and hatred of oppresion without profanity. Without it our arguements look so much stronger to the casual observer.
As a sidenote, the girl I've been debating guns with found some of the very posts you seem to not like as the most educational. Even the masses of those who don't care for guns are beginning to wonder about government motives. Why aren't you?
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Live Free or Die Trying,
Steve
[This message has been edited by Ruger (edited September 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Ruger (edited September 17, 1999).]
I've always been told the best way to insure a freedom stays free is to exercise it frequently. Talk of revolution, killing UN invaders, fighting a bloody conflict is free speech. Much like school prayer which was never really outlawed until just recently, if we simply stop practicing it, we will lose it totally. Are the talks we've had about these topics stirring? Yes. Are they relevant in todays climate? Yes. Is it talk that we may use to insure our continued freedom? Yes. Is it in fact the very thing our founding fathers insisted we use to insure the government was kept in it's place? Yes. So why on this board, dedicated to guns, would you ever wish to not allow that speech? We've been demonized and lied about in the press, slandered on the various boards of the net, potrayed as evil anti-constitutionist to the uninformed, called butchers and murderers by the soccer moms. We need a board to vent, express ideas, and yes, perhaps hopefully strike fear into the government. Our founding fathers would have expected no less. What if the papers of their time had refused to print their articles, if publishers refused to print Thomas Paines"Commom Sense", what then TFL? Would we still be housing men with redcoats in our homes?
It's time to let public America know where we stand. Not just in defense of the 2nd, but in defense of the whole Bill. It's time they know we stand in awe of the power of the constitution, and that we believe every word written in the Declaration of Independance. It's time that Big Brother knows, we will band together and fight to insure our freedoms remain free, our lives remain ours to live, our voice remains ours to voice. Never in recent memory have I seen more people in upheaval over what to do of government abuses. Somebody finally realized it's not just about guns, or the Waco evidence wouldn't have come out. People realize our freedom is at stake. Have you been to a gunshow lately? Have you seen the type of people going and buying guns? It's got little to do with Y2K and everything to do with fear of government.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their 'constitutional' right of amending it or their 'revolutionary' right to dismember or overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln, First inaugural address, March 4, 1861.
"Fear is the foundation of most governments..."John Adams, "Thoughts on Government", 1776.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).
TFL, with those quotes in mind I ask you to reconsider your current stance. I don't think you will find a soul among us who thinks every police officer is a tyrants helper, or a threat to the constitution. Neither will you find one of us who thinks the same of all soldiers. But I do believe you will find among us, among those same two groups, individuals who are willing to take the life of a tyrants helper if they should decide to remove our guns. I have friends in local, state, and federal law enforcement, and they know where they stand. If these men take offense to the fact that I will try to kill them if they attempt to take my guns, then perhaps we are better off without them here. To many of us have had to many conversations like I have of late with police and military who simply say, if an order comes I follow it. Aren't we all to be Americans first and foremost, and respect all parts of the constitution? Why should you restrict us from our defense of liberty? Maybe it's a blessing in disguise that law enforcement and government are reading this, the general public at large. Maybe it's time they all see us for what we truly are, the most powerful lobby ever created, the only lobby written into the Bill of Rights that is insured of it's voice being heard. Even if it is one shot at a time.
I feel like you see those of us with strong rhetoric as a little less American than others who sit quietly and watch things unfold, I contend it's otherwise. When you look back to the quotes of 1776, the loudest voice was the one most listened to and it was Thomas Jefferson, I ask you today not to silence the voice of the Thomas Jeffersons of this board.
As to foul language, I agree it should be censored out, we can show our outrage and hatred of oppresion without profanity. Without it our arguements look so much stronger to the casual observer.
As a sidenote, the girl I've been debating guns with found some of the very posts you seem to not like as the most educational. Even the masses of those who don't care for guns are beginning to wonder about government motives. Why aren't you?
------------------
Live Free or Die Trying,
Steve
[This message has been edited by Ruger (edited September 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Ruger (edited September 17, 1999).]