The Frog on the Stove...

B

Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
I truly mean no disrespect to our friend from Ireland but we need to see where we are headed here in America. Folks, we can not let this happen to us here.

We all know the story. A frog placed in boiling water jumps out immediately, but placed in cold water with heat slowly added, he'll sit there until he boils to death.

This is where the anti-gun forces are taking us.

It used to be called "The Slippery Slope" but that became bad-juju and now we call it "Creeping Incrementalism".

Manta49 said:
Its not as bad as some Americans seem to think and are told on the media...
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Followed by...


You have to apply for a firearms certificate a criminal record and mental health issues can go against you.

The term ‘firearm’ is defined as a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes any:

Prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon or not.
Component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon.
Accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon.
‘Component Part’ in relation to a firearm means –


Sound moderators are allowed for riffles not handguns.
Barrel, chamber or cylinder.
Frame, action, body or receiver.
Breech block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the pressure of discharge at the rear of the chamber.
Part of a firearm which directly bears the pressure caused by firing.
Magazine.
In Northern Ireland airguns and CO2 guns having a discharge kinetic energy in excess of one (1) Joule (0.737 ft lbs) require to be held on a Firearm Certificate.

It's illegal for a shop to sell any kind of knife to someone under 18.

It's also illegal for shops to sell imitation guns or air weapons to anyone under 18-years-old, or to sell realistic imitation guns to anyone.

You'll be committing an offence if you buy any of these items. Possessing a knife or firearm (whether it's yours or not) is illegal and can result in a prison sentence.

Some knives are illegal for even adults to buy. The below are all categorised as offensive weapons and are completely banned:
•Flick knives - also called ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’.
•Butterfly knives
•Disguised knives - in which the blade is hidden in something like a belt buckle or fake mobile phone.

•It is illegal to carry a knife or a gun, even an imitation one.
•If you are caught with a knife or a gun, regardless of whether you say it was for your own protection or you were carrying it for someone else, you will be arrested and prosecuted.
•Possession of a knife can carry a prison sentence of up to 4 years even if it's not used.
•There's a minimum 5-year sentence for carrying a gun if you're over 18. If you're under 18, you could still go to prison.
•If you stab somebody and they die, you will face a life sentence and will serve a minimum prison sentence of 25 years.
•Causing the death of someone with a gun carries a life sentence and you will serve a mandatory 30-year prison sentence.
•If someone is injured or killed by a knife or gun in your presence, even if you're not the one using the weapon, you too could be prosecuted. You could be sent to prison for murder in what is referred to as ‘joint enterprise’.

Remember - the law is clear - if you choose to carry a weapon, you put your future in danger.

Of the 59,585 licence holders we have detailed information on, 98% are male.

PS Handguns are allowed in N Ireland AK/s and AR/s can be got single shot only. It is more hassle than America but fill in a form and you should have your certificate in a few weeks. Example of the number of firearms in N Ireland. Remember N Ireland has a population of around one and a half million and shooting as i said is a minority sport.

•A total of 2,924 licenses have ‘Personal Protection Weapon’ among the conditions of use.
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This is "...not as bad as Americans seem to think..."

1.5 million people. 60,000 of them are privileged to own firearms. That's 4% of the population. 98% of those are men. Less than 3,000 people, that's less than 0.2%, are allowed by their government to defend themselves with firearms. I assume that slightly over 50% of their population are women. That's 750,000 women, 2% of whom are allowed firearms of ANY kind and 5% of that 2% are allowed to use one to defend themselves. That is, statistically, 60 women in the whole of Northern Ireland who are authorized to carry defensive weapons! A tiny fraction of 1 percent!

That adds up to FAR worse restrictions than I could have imagined, and far worse than I could conceive of calling "not as bad as you'd think".

Think long and hard on this, folks. Make no mistake. This IS where the anti-gun forces are trying to take us. It is not their intent to "mirror" British or Irish restrictions on the matter, but it IS the same destination.
 
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While I understand your fears, there are two big things working against the fabian's incrementalism working the same way in America.

1) Constitutional Americans. While this has slowly eroded greatly over time, it is very apparent that Americans are the slowest to accept these changes out of all other 3rd world countries.
2) The funding of big government that allows this ability of slow incrementalism to take place over 100 years is about to come to a huge stand still. When the bottom falls out of the dollar, they're gonna have to show their hand a lot sooner than they wanted their bets placed.
 
Americans are the slowest to accept these changes out of all other 3rd world countries.
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So now we are considered a third world country?:) I have thought we were headed that way for some time now.:eek:

I understand the OP and agree that we must remain vigilant.
 
Dr Big Bird PHD said:
While I understand your fears, there are two big things working against the fabian's incrementalism working the same way in America.

1) Constitutional Americans. While this has slowly eroded greatly over time, it is very apparent that Americans are the slowest to accept these changes out of all other 3rd world countries.
2) The funding of big government that allows this ability of slow incrementalism to take place over 100 years is about to come to a huge stand still. When the bottom falls out of the dollar, they're gonna have to show their hand a lot sooner than they wanted their bets placed.
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1. According to those on the other side, the Constitutional protection only applies to handguns inside the home per Heller and McDonald. But, of course, the majority of the Supreme Court misread the 2A because it only applies to a state's formal militia called the National Guard. The Guard, in turn, may be nationalized at anytime so the 2A is really a waste of ink anyway. In short, a written Constitutional provision means nothing if not vigorously defended.

2. Cost is not necessarily a factor. If you outlaw guns, either directly or incrementally, all production for the private sector stops. Some gun owners will give up their guns. Some will not. I don't know how many. Over the course of years, our populace will be (and are being) indoctrinated that guns are evil and the number of those willing to become instant felons will dwindle. A few well publicized cases will do much to persuade some to surrender their guns and their rights.

BTW, I have to agree with KMAX about your third world comment.

Respectfully,

Jim
 
Eh, we still only wear ribbons on dress uniforms so not a third world nation just yet.


In regards to "Creeping Incrementalism", I would say that we, as gun owners, have been on this road since 1934 and the NFA.
 
If someone is injured or killed by a knife or gun in your presence, even if you're not the one using the weapon, you too could be prosecuted. You could be sent to prison for murder in what is referred to as ‘joint enterprise’
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That doesn't make any sense. That has to be a mistatement of the law. Sounds like a mistatement of the felony murder rule.
 
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