The fighting Shotgun?

Z

ZVP

New member
Just look back through the decades to say around 1940 when the Pump was pretty well entrenched in Law enforcement.
What options did the real pldtime Cops use?how were their guns set up they threw a lotore lead around nback then as shell counts weren'tanditory. How did they desalination with shell capAcity,with slings and sights. With ammo what was "the"load to use on getting. To the bad guys? Usually only one officer per car and mainly only one officer on scene. How did they attack or defend that will give you insight onto what you need for your fighting Shotgun
I have set mine up on thismanner.
Mine only has a 5 shot magazine but I can re-stokenit pretty fast and ,i not carrying much weight on the front of the gun. Mine swings fast and has a 20 1/2 barrel.
Like the olden ers, my gun is set ip for action'
Lease look at the older guns and honestly evaluate how to set your Shotgun up.
Hth,
BPDave
 
Back then, the shotgun was known as a "riot gun" and that's pretty much just what the average police gun was.
Most police shotguns sat in the rack at headquarters until there was a riot, prison break, man hunt, or raid.
Once the emergency was over, it went right back in the rack.

In those days the police shotgun was nothing more than a standard sporting gun with 18" to 20" Cylinder Bore barrel and plain oil finished wood.
No one much heard of rifle sights on a shotgun, much less a receiver (ghost ring) sight.
Slings were not used, and shotguns had whatever magazine capacity the standard sporting gun version had.

Ammo was almost uniformly 00 buck shot.

Very few departments used automatic shotguns, almost all used pump guns, and the gun of choice was the Winchester Model 12, with a few Winchester 1897's, Ithaca Model 37's, and a few odd ball departments that bought some other brand like Stevens.

The few lawmen who personally bought automatic shotguns, it was the Browning, again in an 18" to 20" barrel loaded with 00 buck.

There just wasn't a lot of shotgun accessories or alterations available or even thought of back then.
The shotgun as-was was considered to be completely satisfactory.
 
Ranger JJ McQuade....

In the pre-Walker Texas Ranger era, actor Chuck Norris toted a WWII era Browning A5 cut-down 12ga as Texas Ranger JJ McQuade, Lonewolf McQuade (1983). www.imfdb.org
:D

I read a LE industry article about 4/5 years ago claiming the "shotgun was dead in modern US law enforcement" :confused:.
While, Id agree that many patrol officers & sworn deputies carry M4s or patrol rifles in 2014, the 12ga pump or semi-auto weapon still has a few advantages.

Clyde
 
Our local sheriff office still has 870's in the cars, and our sheriff has no plans to change that. All of our deputies also carry AR-15's too.

Our sheriff has no plans to get rid of the shotguns.
 
ol'time

Charles Askins talks about a custom Browning A5 with mag extension in one of his books, but he was an enthusiast. OO buck likely the load most common.

I've seen pics of Win 97's and Model 12's in more than one Gman LE photo. But material these days seems to indicate that carbines of that era were still very popular, note the Rem 8's and Win 351's.

Not that era, but we had Win 12's with heat shields and bayonet lugs at the front of my career, late 1970's, in some of the big parks I worked as a seasonal, built with extended mags and possessing ordinance stamps. All phased out for the Rem 870, by policy W/O a mag extension until about 10 years ago.
 
Interesting posts! yea the shotgun, like all firearms have undergone dramatic modifications over the past decade! The Officer who is assigned Shorgun Duty is now able to personalize the weapon as the armorer permits. Some mods help (like good nite sights) others border on the ridiculous for the regular Homeowner to try and duplicate. These mode are done to make the Shotgun a piece of the Squad, all components working in unison, forming an almost impenetrable unit of men, on the attack trying to secure a location or just a piece of the whole picture!
Yes I can see where some mods accomplish this!
For the average guy or Gal, the requirements are leaa stringent and more "survivability oriented! Where the Police unit may need to breech doors the homeowner might need to simply shoot through the door. That takes a different gun and load!
I tend to imagine and fire a load of Buck and blast it through a car door leaving enough ME to disable an opponents shoulder! (There won't be 1-3 guys with AR's backing up my shot so it's gotta work!
For the homeowner perhaps barricading -up behind a heavy dresser might be the need. having a gun that'll maneuver around the bedroom with nothing to hang up om! I'd hate to snag a bedpost while swinging in order to get an incapacitating shot off!
The specialised accessories available today have specific applications.
You need to review them and decide which ones (if any?) will fit your needs.
Personally I have mine outfitted with the minimum amount of gizmos to make the gun "slide" through the home!
At distances of 10 to 20 ft, you don't have time to go untangling my gun from a lamp!
Yea I used to like the old term "Riot Gun" it conjured up all sorts of images of a PD facing down an angry Mob. Today, I envision facing down 1 to 3 attackers hell bent on making my stuff theirs, and leaving me and my family just bloody corpses that are out of the way of their demonic tasks.
I want my Shotgun to work at stopping the attack on my loved ones and self!
So you cam see why I have opted for a tool capable of the job ahead!
Help may be on it's way but for that 5 to 10 minutes that you are on your own!
That Shotgun, the handgun of choice and your cell Phone are your omly defenses.
Lets hope and pray you never find out if you planned well enough!
BPDave
 
Our local Sheriff department carry 870s in there cars and 45acps on their hips. The only difference in there 870s and the ones you see at walmart is they put a side saddle on theres for more ammo and have an extended mag tub. When I asked they where using Federal Flight Controll 00 buck.
 
That Shotgun, the handgun of choice and your cell Phone are your omly defenses.
Click to expand...

The only way a cell phone will help in your defense is if you have pictures on it you can show the jury!

Essentially the first defensive/combat shotgun was the Blunderbus. It was short and handy, compared to other guns, and while the big flared muzzle was said to spread the shot more (and/or make it louder) this really wasn't true. What that big funnel shaped muzzled did do was make it faster and easier to load than other guns of the era. And being able to rapidly dump powder and shot (or nails, or rocks or what ever) down the barrel instead of having to carefully pour them in is a considerable advantage when everyone has single shot muzzleloaders.

The next stage in their evolution became the famous "coach guns" of the west. These were regular double barrels, with barrels shortened (usually 20") for fast handling. Very popular with stagecoach guards, shopkeepers, bartenders, and lawmen, or anyone who wasn't using the gun for hunting game.

When pumps took over, replacing double barrels due to their greater firepower and greater reliablilty than the early semi autos, they became "riot guns" in the hands of the police. Again, essentially stock commercial guns other than the short barrels. The military developed "trench guns" for WW I, which were the same as the police riot guns, except many had metal heat shields for the barrels and a means of mounting a bayonet. A lot of these trench guns found their way to police use over the years, and served as well as anything could.

While Winchesters, and later Remingtons had a good share of the market, the Ithaca model 37 had great favor with the police. Cost was one factor, but it was also a good gun, and unlike all the others, with its bottom ejection, the 37 was equally good for both right and left handed shooters.

Today, we have all kinds of add on extras available. Some actually increase the utility of the gun, others, not so much, for most common situations, anyway.
 
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Wow those are beautys! Nice collection!
Makes me feel kind of ashamed to just own one chopped field gun...
Thanks for sharing!
BPDave
 
The ability to deliver specialty "payloads" like bean bag rounds or breaching rounds still make the shotgun an indispensable tool to law enforcement.
 
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