The famous Hitler Gun Control Quote, A Myth?

Z

Zrazys

Inactive
Here is a link to the Urban Legends site. The article is about the famous
Adolph Hitler declaration. It appears as if it is a myth. Here's the quote attributed to him.

"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our
streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and
the world will follow our lead into the future."
-Adolf Hitler, 1935

Here is the link: http://www.urbanlegends.com/politics/hitler_gun_control.html
 
We have discussed this quote here at TFL in the past. As I remember from the discussion at that time, it is a false quote. Urban legend as it were, more of a cyber/global/rural/urban et al legend.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
We do know that jews and some others got guns/knives/sticks removed on the pain of death. Kinda like Japanese efforts in 1630s...threaten with death and hope that folks give up rather than fight it out with those same guns.

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited December 18, 1999).]
 
What a JERK. I'm Jewish, a sixth generation American, and guess what? I'm well armed as well, and have every right to be. Thank you for showing everyone on this board the fundamental reason we need to preserve our right to keep and bear arms... To protect ourselves from JERKS like you!
 
Jews were prohibited from owning arms under penalty of death? The Nazis planned to kill them anyway, why add a silly death penalty law? The Hitler quote is a phony. The Law of 1938 (not 1935) did prohibit Jews from buying arms, but did not prohibit ownership, not that it would have mattered.

In fact, Jews were vastly outnumbered in Germany, and any resistance would have been futile in the long run, though "taking some of the b.....ds with you" may give some final satisfaction.

The main reason for lack of resistance was that the "final solution" was kept a secret and the victims hoped for the best. Other factors were the general disinclination of Jews to own guns. Aside from the laws, orthodox Jews do not hunt and had not developed an instinct for self defense. Further, they had a tradition of pacifism and obedience to the law, a natural result of centuries of persecution in which resistance would only bring on more persecution. Another result of persecution was the tendency of Jews to form a close society and work as a group, collectively, for the common good.

The Warsaw ghetto was a aberration, and ultimately failed. Not until the founding of Israel were Jews armed, powerful and proud of it. Yet, even today, even in Israel, there are Jews who urge disarmament, and who want Israel to renounce violence even in self-defense.

Jews are, as a group, anti-gun. Many equate gun ownership with the extreme right wing; they see the NRA as hiding the KKK. This is not entirely without reason - many pro-gun people are right-wing extremists, but most are not. And in this country, Jews see the government as friendly (and politicians as seeking the block Jewish vote).

They see their enemies as rightists who want to do them harm. The propensity of gun owners for the right is a natural reaction to the leftist doctrine of collectivist socialism, which abhors self defense and insists that protection is a collective (i.e., government) prerogative. Of course, socialism assumes that government will always be benevolent; many socialists would be perfectly willing to imprison or kill anyone who would doubt their good will or resist their benevolence.

A few American Jews, having no direct experience with state terror, even believe that the Nazis were a private group, like the Aryan Nation, and that Hitler merely failed to stop the Holocaust.

One man of my acquaintance insists that the Gestapo was like the KKK. For some reason, he refuses to accept the idea that the Gestapo was the equivalent of the FBI, with the same general duties (enforce national law and protect the nation from espionage and subversion). The Gestapo was an arm of the state, not a bunch of goons running around with hoods.

Basicaly, the gun control debate thus is between those who believe in a collectivist society and those who believe in individual freedom and rights.

Jim
 
Until 1938, Jews could serve in the German Army. After 1938, that had changed. An a sassination ofa German ambassador by a French Jew was all the excuse needed. I don't know if Holocaust could have been blunted by armed resistence. I do know that self-delusion is very hard to shake off (I suspect I would have been in a camp by the time I got a clue). I also know that a general disinclination to be unarmed would have saved many (i.e., use prohibition on arms as a lithmus test of intent).

I asked my grandmother about it (she was the sole survivor of her family in '41 Belorus). She, surprisingly, agreed that it would have been better if her father and siblings (mom died earlier) had rifles. She approved of me teaching my parents to shoot. She also approved of the one cousing that is planning to visit from Russia getting intro to defensive weapons when here.

I think that any last-ditch stand should be done with a rifle, not with a shovel. It may end up a lost cause (Boer war) or a fight to stand-still (Winter War) but it wont be another Babi Yar...

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Apology to Oleg Volk:

I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your earlier post to mean that the jews were responsible for gun confiscation... "jews and some others got guns/knives/sticks removed"... rather than being victims of that policy. The confusion arose over the use of the word "got" as opposed to "had" or "had their".

Combine this with the anti-semitic rhetoric that I have personally experienced surfing the web, perhaps has made me a little too defensive and ready to fight. As an American Jew with Libertarian and Republican political beliefs, I find myself in a precarious position. First, I am constantly at odds with many other Jewish people who are dyed in the wool liberals and believe that gun control and confiscation is necessary to ensure the security and safety of American Jews from the rampant and vociferous anti-semites in this country. I am forever pointing out to them that this is the same error made in Europe prior to the Holocaust and relying on the government for safety and security is mistake #1.

Second, there is a very large element in this country (the KKK, Aryan Nations, and many many Militia Groups) that believe there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy to control the world and the world economy. Many of the members of these groups are also strident supporters of private ownership of firearms.

This leaves me (a conservative Jew) with very little support because I am the bad guy from all quarters. Among the Jews, I am ostracized as a non-progressive stone age thinker, and among the others I am simply... a Jew. A very difficult position to be in.

I would believe in and support the militia movement if their thinking could be reformed to include ALL Americans, Blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, Christians, Muslims and Jews as simply Americans who are interested in preserving the Constitution. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case and so sometimes I truly feel alone. An island in a sea of hatred, ignorance and judgementalism. It was in this spirit that I wrongly interpreted your message and for that I do apologize...
 
You are among friends here, Shark. This isn't the Neo Nazi site. This is the Citizen Site. A forum for true patriots, thinkers, the hard-to-fool. Racism, Sexism, flawed philosophies such as these are not welcome here. They do not offer any logical ideas or usefull solutions to national problems. Or local ones for that matter.
All people are people.
 
Hi Shark,

cdf spoke correctly in that The Firing Line does not promote racism, sexism or other flawed philosophies. We do promote safe and responsible exercise of our 2nd Amendment (and God given) right to arms. If you believe as we do on this matter, you are most certainly among friends here.

4V50 Gary

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
hi shark,
One of my favorite web sites is http://www.jpfo.org/
Jews for the protection of fire arms ownership.
These guys have got their heads on straight.
This means that they think properly and that
I agree with most of what they have to say.

I am Catholic from Italian and French ancestors, but I just think of myself as a American.

I do not think of Klintonistias as
Americians. I think of them as liberal socialist elitists gun grabbers and probable enemies domestic and this is their own damned fault for
trying to infringe on our rights to keep and bear arms.

The Second Ammendment is the ultimate guarantee that Americans will always
have the means to remain free. It is a major deterant to govt tyranty.
It keeps the USA from turning into
something much like Nazi Germany in 1938.

The anti gun jews are making a big mistake trusting the US govt and will probably end up sorry for it ,once again.

I hope , very much, that I am wrong about this. But the US govt only
keeps getting worst & more worst, never
improving for the better.

The govt needs to start opperating according to the Constitution of the United
States, instead of ripping the Constitution apart ever chance it gets.

I believe in the Constitution, I no
longer give much credulance to the govt.

Again ,this is the govt own damned fault,
I have not changed but they did; for the worst,yet again.
 
Hi, Shark,

Most pleased to have you here. I know other Jews who own guns and believe as you do and they get lots of the same kind of flak you get.

JPFO is doing a good job and needs support from all of us.

Another person somewhat in the same boat is Alan Keyes. As a conservative black man, he is routinely denounced as a traitor to his race and receives death threats from the left wing. I wish he could be elected president, but I know there is no realistic hope for that.

Jim
 
Shark;

"I would believe in and support the militia movement if their thinking could be reformed to include ALL Americans, Blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, Christians, Muslims and Jews as simply Americans who are interested in preserving the Constitution."

What makes you think their thinking needs to be "reformed" to meet your stated conditions? Have you joined up with some? I have not, personally, but I sure don't believe all the demonization of them I hear from the media!! Especially since there are a zillion different groups, locations, and motivations.

Otherwise, please don't get racially/ethnically/religiously sensitive around this group. Personally, I am a straight white male atheist and perfectly joyous to interact with a black moslem lesbian so long as that person's head is in the right place regarding personal rights and freedoms, and the right to defend them. As in, I have the right to *MY* beliefs, and to defend them, as well. It has been my experience that the rest of TFL is satisfied to at least leave other subjects mostly alone. Kudos to the moderators for that as well. Expect to be treated as a person here, not as a "jew". However that is supposed to be, I don't even know. Or care. And welcome, BTW.
 
Someone said that the Jews were not prohibited from owning guns, only from buying new ones.

This is from the book "Lethal Laws" available at www.jpfo.org.

Page 183 translated from the original German.

Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons

11 November 1938

<snip>
Section 1
Jews...are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

Section 2
Firearms and ammuniton found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

Section 3
The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in Section 1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

Section 4
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of Section 1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

Section 5
For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

Section 6
The regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick

As for the penalty of death, I have heard of it but have not read it. As we know, in 1938 the "Final Solution" was not being implemented. In fact, German Jews were allowed to leave the country if they sold all of their property to German citizens and could find a country who would take indigent Jews. Good luck, as even FDR turned a boat load away.

Rick

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
William Pitt 1783

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
Hi, Rick D.

Change "Jews" to "anyone" and send that on to the White House; it will save some time for them in drafting the next EO. But be sure to keep the part about waiving legal and administrative provisions.

Jim
 
I don't know either way about teh Hitler quote, but we aware: The Urban Legend board is NOT ALWAYS CORRECT.

There have been "legends" that the Urban Legend board claims are false, when people here on this forum were there and know they really happened. So, just because the Urban Legend board says it is a myth, take what they say with a grain of salt.
 
Jim, not until isreal were the jews armed and powerfull, I dont think thats the whole story, back about 2000 years ago they had quite a bit of influence. i.e power to kill.
This is not an attack againt anyone just the facts as I know them.We all know the Jew that was killed.

On that hitler quote I had heard it was out of a TIME magazine quote?

Glad to have you here shark.

Speaking of urban legend how bout the 47times more likley to shoot yourself in the back of the neck if you own a shotgun? Total BS quoted by POS liberals. At least when we quote hitler we know if hitler didnt say it he thought it.

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited December 22, 1999).]
 
Here's what I pulled from the NRAILA site. It sounds reputable. However, the registration quote is a hoax.

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Nazi repression of firearms owners

"The Night of the Broken Glass (Kristallnacht)--the infamous Nazi rampage against Germany's Jews--took place in November 1938. It was preceded by the confiscation of firearms from the Jewish victims. On Nov. 8, The New York Times reported from Berlin, "Berlin Police Head
Announces 'Disarming' of Jews," explaining:


After invading, Nazis used pre-war lists of gun owners to confiscate firearms and many gun owners simply disappeared. Following confiscation, the Nazis were free to wreak their evil on the disarmed populace, such as on these helpless Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto.

"The Berlin Police President, Count Wolf Heinrich von Helldorf, announced that as a result of a police activity in the last few weeks the entire Jewish population of Berlin had been 'disarmed' with the confiscation of 2,569 hand weapons, 1,702 firearms and 20,000 rounds of ammunition. Any Jews still found in possession of weapons without valid licenses are threatened with the severest punishment."2

On the evening of Nov. 9, Adolph Hitler, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels and other Nazi chiefs planned the attack. Orders went out to Nazi security forces: "All Jewish stores are to be destroyed immediately . Jewish synagogues are to be set on fire . The Führer wishes that the police does not intervene. All Jews are to be disarmed. In the event of resistance they are to be shot immediately."3

All hell broke loose on Nov. 10: "Nazis Smash, Loot and Burn Jewish Shops and Temples," a headline read. "One of the first legal measures issued was an order by Heinrich Himmler, commander of all German police, forbidding Jews to possess any weapons whatever and imposing a
penalty of twenty years confinement in a concentration camp upon every Jew found in possession of a weapon hereafter."4 Thousands of Jews were taken away.

Searches of Jewish homes were calculated to seize firearms and assets and to arrest adult males. The American Consulate in Stuttgart was flooded with Jews begging for visas: "Men in whose homes old, rusty revolvers had been found during the last few days cried aloud that they did not dare ever again return to their places of residence or business. In fact, it was a mass of seething, panic-stricken humanity."5

Himmler, head of the Nazi terror police, would become an architect of the Holocaust, which consumed 6 million Jews. It was self-evident that the Jews must be disarmed before the extermination could begin.

Finding out which Jews had firearms was not too difficult. The liberal Weimar Republic passed a Firearm Law in 1928 requiring extensive police records on gun owners. Hitler signed a further gun control law in early 1938.

Other European countries also had laws requiring police records to be kept on persons who possessed firearms. When the Nazis took over Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1939, it was a simple matter to identify gun owners. Many of them disappeared in the middle of the night along with political opponents."

[This message has been edited by BTR (edited December 25, 1999).]
 
Happy to go shooting in TX with my
fellow co-religionists, one of whom
is Orthodox.

I've also gone to the range with, I think,
every race and creed. You just need common sense.

I do regret that the RKBA is sometimes seen
as correlated with racism.

As having had family die in the Holocaust,
seen discrimination, etc. it is difficult
to walk by the Nazi tables (not souvenirs)
at the gun show and remember the 1st Amend, etc., etc.
 
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