the end of the world as we did not know it

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dZ

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http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

Past predictions, that have not panned out:

Some Christians have made predictions which involve several events that they believe are related: the second coming of Jesus, the war
of Armageddon, the arrival on earth of the Antichrist, the Tribulation, the Rapture, some horrendous natural disaster, etc. It is worth
noting that all of the following predictions have failed. We expect that predictions being made today about our future will also fail.


About 30 CE: The Christian Gospels record many predictions by Jesus of Nazareth that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very
short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some
standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Since the life expectancy in
those days was little over 30 years, Jesus predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen.



(a bunch edited to save bandwidth...)
go here to see whole list:
www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm


Sometime in 1996: The book "The Return of Jupiter: End of the world in the light of the Bible" Dorrance Publishing, Pittsburgh
PA predicted a disaster starting in the Pacific Ocean: "A terrible earthquake is going to break the oceanic earth crust under the
Pacific Ocean by the year 1996 AD"

1996-OCT-23: Since 1658, many Christians have accepted the calculations of James Ussher, an Irish archbishop, who estimated that
the first day of creation occurred on 4004-OCT-23 BCE. This would make the time interval between the creation of the world and a
common estimate of the birth of Christ to be precisely 4000 years. Some people believe that Ussher fudged the data to make it
come out neatly. He also estimated that the end of the world would occur exactly 6000 years later, in the fall of 1996. This is
based on the concept of the "millennial week": that each of the 6 days of creation mentioned in Genesis is linked to a 1000 year
time span in the life of the earth. On the 7th millennial day, 1996-OCT-23, Ussher expected that life as we know it will cease.

1997-MAR-8: The Vortex of the Star of David religious sect of Luskville, Quebec was quoted 8 as predicting the end of the world
on Saturday, MAR-8. A father, Jean Leon Marcoux, was interviewed; he was worried because his children will be visiting their
mother at the sect's commune on that weekend. He approached the Quebec police but was unable to get them to take any
action. A spokesperson for the sect stated that they do not follow a doomsday scenario.

1997-APR-10: Dan Millar, of Surrey, BC, Canada and Bob Wadsworth of the Biblical Astronomy newsletter are two religious
researchers. They followed the age-old tradition of looking for signs in the heavens for the arrival of the Antichrist, second coming
of Christ, etc. Ancient prophecies told of heavenly events and even a cross in the sky in advance of momentous developments.
Millar and Wadsworth predicted the arrival of the Antichrist on APR-10. Dan suggested that we watch news from the Vatican and
from Jerusalem on that day, because he expected some sort of coup by the Antichrist. He was expected to come to power in the
Vatican as Pope Peter II.

One heavenly indicator was the intersection by two comets of the star Algol in the constellation Perseus. Comets Hyakutake and
Hale-Bopp intersected the star on the same date (APR-11) on two adjacent years (Hyakutake in 1996 and Hale-Bopp in 1997).
Plotting the two comets' trajectories over the period APR-1 to APR-30 on the two years forms an almost perfect cross. They
intersected between the eyes of the Medusa head that Perseus is holding in his left hand. "Algol" means "Demon Star" in Arabic.
The head is known as Rosh Satan (the head of Satan) in Hebrew. There was one further heavenly sign: on the evening of APR-10,
there will be a lunar occultation of the star Aldebaran in the constellation Taurus.

1997-OCT-20: A Jewish group, called the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement were expected to attempt to
place the cornerstone of a new temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. This is a small piece of real estate that is the most
sacred spot in the world to Jews, and one of the most sacred to Muslims. The Rapture Ready home page has predicted that the
"Tribulation" would be triggered by that event. Previous attempts had failed either because of riots, or police action. There was
one report that they were going to try to airlift the stone by helicopter this time. On OCT-20, several thousand police officers
were deployed throughout Jerusalem; they successfully prevented access to the Temple Mount.

1997-NOV-27: The Sacerdotal Knights of National Security report that "A space alien captured at a UFO landing site in eastern
Missouri cracked under interrogation by the CIA and admitted that an extraterrestrial army will attack Earth on November 27 with
the express purpose of stripping our planet of every natural resource they can find a use for -- and making slaves of every man,
woman and child in the world!"

1997: Superdave the Wonderchemist 9 takes the magic number 1331 and adds it to 666 the "Number of the Beast" from the Book of
Revelation to get the year of the arrival of the Antichrist and the end of the world. Why is 1331 a magic number?

1331 is the same backwards as forwards.

It is 11 raised to the 3rd power

It displays the unlucky number 13 when read in either direction.

it is the fourth row in Pascal's Triangle:

1
1 1
1 2 1
1 3 3 1
1 4 6 4 1 etc.


1997-DEC-31: The 1997-JUL-29 issue of the Weekly World News reported that the biggest end of the world scare since the Cuban
missile crisis was circulating through Washington. President Clinton called a secret meeting with leading Bible scholars for the
week of JUL-27. A confidential Pentagon memo sparked the scare; it predicts a worldwide cataclysm of unprecedented
proportions. Earthquake activity is on a rise and will peak at year-end; the earth's crust is shifting ominously.

Sometime in late 1997 or early 1998: The 1997-JUL-29 issue of the Weekly World News carried a statement by a spokesperson of
the International Association of Psychics. 92% of their 120,000 members have had the same "end time" vision. Spokesperson
Madame Vredeau predicted:

A rise in religious belief. Prophets and saints will appear and lead the faithful to safety

The oceans will shrink. Deserts expand. Crops will fail; there will be massive starvation

Widespread emotional and mental collapse; increase in crime and violence

Changing weather patterns; basic laws of nature will be disrupted

Satanic demons will appear in broad daylight. War, pestilence, a worldwide plague will spread.

Mankind will disappear around the year 2001 CE.


1998-FEB-26: Edgar Casey predicted that the earth would have a new pole during the winter of 1997-1998. Since the earth spins
like a gyroscope, this would take an enormous amount of energy to achieve. That amount of energy would cause a massive
disruption to the oceans and the earth's crust. That could, in turn, cause very serious, worldwide tidal waves, earthquakes and
volcanic eruptions.

1998-MAR-31: About 150 followers of a Taiwanese Christian-Buddhist spiritual sect, God's Salvation Church, moved into Garland
TX (a suburb in northern Dallas) to await God's arrival. They expected that on MAR-25, God would broadcast a commercial on
Channel 18 in Garland. He would then be reincarnated into a man on MAR-31 at 10:00 AM, local time. They anticipated a crowd of
about one million who want to be touched by God. Their leader, Hoh-Ming Chen, selected Garland because it sounds like "God
land". News reports from Taiwan indicated that the group plans to commit mass suicide if God does not appear. These appear to
be unfounded.

1998-MAY-31: Evengelist Marilyn Agee predicted that the rapture would happen on this day, Pentecost. This, she believes, would
trigger the various events listed in the book of Revelation, including the war of Armageddon.

1998-JUL-5 The Church of the Subgenius predicts that on "X Day", the end of the world will occur. At 7 AM, "the Men from
Planet X, or XISTS, will arrive on Earth, close a deal with "Bob," rupture the card-carrying Ordained SubGenii up to the Escape
Vessels of the Sex Goddesses, and destroy the remaining population of Earth, VERY VERY SLOWLY." Bob is J.R. Dobbs, leader and
High Epopt of the Church of the SubGenius, Living Avatar of Slack, the Saint of Sales. He was responsible for founding the Church
on a shifting, sandy beach of hypocrisy." Since X day did not materialize, they say: "we're still here -- a little shaken, perhaps,
and re-evaluating the interpretation of PreScripture..." Further study indicated that we have been given a reprieve. The artifact
on which the date was written was accidentally inverted; the end of the world will really happen in 8661 CE!

1998-SEP: Two Christian pilgrims from an American Fundamentalist group were detained in Israel's Ben Gurion airport. They had
allegedly planned to attack the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, which is the site of Islam's third holiest shrine. Their goal appears to
have been to precipitate a massive religious conflict which would escalate into Armageddon. Their group advocates the
construction of the Third Temple on the location now occupied by the Al Aqsa mosque. Their goal appears to have been not
Biblically based. Verses in the book of Revelation imply that Jesus' return will only occur after ritual animal killing is reinstated at
this location.

1998-OCT-10 Concerned Christians is a destructive, doomsday cult of 30 to 60 adults and children, led by Monte Kim Miller. Miller
was an anti-cult activist in the 1980's. He predicted that an unspecified disaster would wipe Denver CO off the map on OCT-10. He
predicted his own death in 1999-DEC and his resurrection three days later. The Denver apocalypse didn't happen. They left
Denver near the end of September and relocated to Jerusalem. Many Christians believe that when Jesus returns, he will descend
from the sky and make landfall on the Mount of Olives, near Jerusalem. 10 Israeli police arrested members of the group and
deported them. The Israelis seem to be motivated by fear that the group may commit mass suicide.

1998-OCT: The House of Yahweh, Abileneª predicted that an end-of-world scenario will start during 1998-OCT. By mid-2001, they
predict that 80% of the world's population will have been killed as a result of nuclear warfare.

1998-NOV: Natalia de Lemeny - Makedonova has written a book titled "Eternal Laws - New Mankind - Spiritual Transformation"
She predicts that the "Son of Creator - Immanuel - the ruler of the millennial empire, announced in the Bible, will be born in
Slovakia in November...His birth will be accompanied by a star which will shine in the sky and will be visible in the whole
world.This event will also be announced by other unearthly phenomena in the sky." A purification of the earth will begin at his
birth; it may be either "catastrophic or symbolic." 11

1998-DEC-12: A survivalist from Arkansas spammed a warning to some mailing lists. He predicted that in the early morning hours, a
massive nuclear war will begin in the U.S. Food will be wiped out; water will be contaminated; 75 million will die immediately; even
more will die later. He recommends to "Get strong in your spiritual life, get out of large cities and away from military sites and
military storage facilities and get prepared to survive."

Sometime in 1998:

Centro is a very active religious organization, largely centered in the Philippines. They predict that the world will come to
an end in 1998. They recommend that their followers retreat to safe places.

The famous psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that a secret, underground chamber would be discovered between the paws of
the Great Sphinx. Inside, there will be documents revealing the history of Atlantis. This revelation will trigger the Second
Coming of Christ. This prediction is rather interesting, because two recent independent studies have revealed that there is
in fact an underground structure just where Cayce said it would be.

Fr. Sefano Gobbi, a Roman Catholic visionary, predicted on 1989-JUN-17 that the end of the world, the final judgment and
the dawning of the Marian Reign of Peace would unfold in 1998.


1999-JAN: According to the 1997-JUN-24 issue of Sun Magazine Pope John XXIII predicted in 1962 that visitors from outer space
will arrive in chariots of flaming steel and will share their advanced knowledge with humanity. Our life span will be increased to 150
years or longer. Most diseases will be wiped out.

1999-JAN/FEB: Between JAN-20 and FEB-4, an asteroid measuring 20 miles in diameter and traveling about 20,000 miles/hour was
predicted to earth. At that speed and probable mass, it would totally disrupt all life processes on earth. Dr. Morris Plammer said
that a photo was leaked to him by "highly placed friends" within NASA. The photo allegedly contains markings in the shape of a
Satanic face.

1999-FEB-23: In 1997-NOV, evangelist Dan Bohler predicted that the Clinton Administration would fall on or about this date. He
predicted that there would be tanks driving up and down the main streets in every American city, and that there would be bombs
going off in Washington DC. Although not quite as disastrous an event that other predictions, it still would be quite distressing to
the American people.

1999-MAR: The Students of the Seven Seals (Branch Davidians) teach that disaster will strike the earth in the form of warfare,
earthquakes, blacked skies and other horrors. On AUG-6, David Koresh will return to earth. He will raise the dead, judge humans,
and start over in Jerusalem. None of this happened.

1999-MAR: Roman Catholic visionary called by the pen name Robert Hartman predicted that "the Miracle" would happen before
the year 2000, in a month that contains two full moons. The last opportunity for this to happen was 1999-MAR, when a full moon
occurred on the 2nd and 31st. By including the prophecies of other visionaries, 1999-MAR-11 appeared to be a prime date for the
Miracle.

1999-APR-3: Ed. Dames, president of PsyTech predicted that solar flares would strike the earth during the Easter weekend (APR-3
and 4 in the West). Persons who were living in caves or under the earth might survive. The rest of the world's population would be
killed. He predicted that space aliens would arrive about 2012 to rescue the few survivors. Ed., his family and employees spent
the weekend hiding out inside a lava tube in Hawaii. Solar activity was high in early 1999; it varies over an 11 year cycle.

1999-APR: On 1999-MAR-18, J. Adams, Webmaster of the "Spirit of Truth" web page made a prediction: When the Dow Jones
Industrial Average reaches the magic 10,000 point, a surprise world war will be triggered, followed by the utter destruction of
America and the Western powers. The index has been over 10,000 for some weeks now, and there is no indication of a surprise
attack.

1999-APR/MAY: Various Roman Catholic apocalypticists during the 1990's have predicted a great Miracle, final judgment and the
dawning of the Marian Reign of Peace, starting on APR-8, APR-15 or MAY-13.

1999-MAY-8: An Evangelical Christian from New Brunswick, Canada, Terry Peterson, had a vision in 1989. It involved terrible
destruction caused by a continent-wide earthquake. The epicenter will be in California, as the entire state plunges "into the
ocean as God's punishment for the 'immoral' state's sins." He also reports massive devastation on the east coast of North America.
Unfortunately, God only revealed to him a partial date: MAY 8, 199?. He believes that the earthquake will occur between 11 PM on
MAY 7 and one hour before dawn on MAY-8, Eastern time.

1999-MAY-21/22: Evangelist Marilyn Agee predicts that the rapture will happen on this day, Pentecost. Earlier, she predicted that
it would happen on the Pentecost of 1998. The rapture, she believed, would trigger the various events listed in the book of
Revelation, including the war of Armageddon.

1999-MAY-23: M.J. Agee writes in the Bible Prophecy Corner that because Noah had a 7 day warning that the flood was going to
begin, perhaps we today will receive a 7 months warning of the rapture. He notes that the Wye Memorandum peace agreement
was signed on 1998-OCT-23 by representatives of Israel and Palestine. This is 7 months prior to Pentecost on 1999-MAY-23 as
celebrated by the Orthodox churches.

1999-MAY: Bryan Elder, an Arkansas hydraulics specialist, was quoted in Time magazine (1999-JAN-18) as predicting that an
alignment of the planets will burn up the earth sometime during this month.

1999-JUL-3: Some British "Nostradamologists" predicted a world catastrophic event during the evening of JUL-3. Two TV channels
in the UK followed the "events" as they unfold. The 1st channel of Italian TV started a special at 11:15 PM. According to CESNUR,
the program on RAI1 will be "devoted both to Nostradamus and to the real risks of violence caused by millenarian movements such
as Heaven's Gate or the Order of the Solar Temple." (CESNUR is an Italian group which studies new religious movements and the
anti-cult movement.) At 2 PM ET on JUL-3, a poll of readers of the Electronic Telegraph (an online newspaper from the UK)
indicated that 18% believed that the apocalypse is coming later that day; 24% said it will come "soon," and 58% said "never."

1999-JUL-7 at 7:00 GMT: Eileen Lakes predicted that the planets of the solar system would be arranged in a "Grand Cross"
configuration at that time. Inter-planetary magnetism would then cause the earth's poles to suddenly shift by exactly 90 degrees.
She believes that this event happens every 12,000 years. "Large earthquakes, tidal waves, volcano explosions, a downpour, a large
flood, etc. will occur all over the world." The shifting of the earth's magnetic field would cause many people to become
temporarily mad. A new arctic area would cover Brazil, Liberia, Ghana, etc. Presumably the mid-Atlantic ocean would freeze.
Similarly, a new Antarctic area would form around the Hawaiian Islands. See: http://www.win.ne.jp/~eileenl/gdcross1.shtml</A>

1999-JUL: Nostradamus predicted that a great king of terror will come from the skies. This has been interpreted by some as
referring to a nuclear missile strike:


"The year 1999, seven months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror: To bring back to life the great
King of the Mongols, Before and after Mars to reign by good luck.Ó

A recent poll in Japan showed that 20% of the adult population believe in the King of Terror prediction.


1999-JUL: God's Salvation Church in Taiwan teaches that Jesus will come to earth in a spaceship during the middle of a nuclear
war. Members of the church will climb aboard the spaceship at Lake Street Beach in Miller, IN and be saved. The rest of us can
expect a less joyful experience.

1999-JUL-26: Author Akio Cho of Japan has predicted on the basis of the writing of Nostradamus that the world will end at 5 PM
(presumably Tokyo time). That will be Monday morning, JUL-26 at 4 AM Eastern Time. On this date, the distance between the
earth and the planet Neptune will be at a minimum.

[This message has been edited by dZ (edited August 07, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by dZ (edited August 07, 1999).]
 
Interesting. I think from a philosophical point of view, we would have a much better world if more people lived thier lives AS IF they were going to stand in judgement tomorrow. Maybe that's the real point of doomsday predictions in the Bible.

Just a thought.

------------------
"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper
 
You a father Jim? As a father, as long as my son is alive, part of me is too. Religious beliefs vary, but I have long been of the opinion that children are the only true immortality we humans get.
 
Rich, longest post ever?

Two things to learn from this:

1. When EOTW is predicted, don't believe it.

2. More importantly: You too can cash in by predicting a NEW EOTW!! - people will still believe it - again. No matter that 400 other predictions were wrong.
 
I, of course, know the truth about the end of the world. If you would like to know it also, please send a $25 money order to ...
 
i stumbled on the secret of life a few years ago while experiencing open heart surgery. the secret of life is-there is no secret of life. we are here and then we are gone. enjoy it while you got it.
 
Nebob has it on the button....

My parents were here......then they were gone in a heartbeat. Ya got what ya got right now.

If anything, try to leave something of intrinsic value for your kids and grandkids, no matter how small

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Hmmmm...first off, most of the folks you cited are not Christians....

As far as Matthew 16:28, there are a few views on that.

- some hold that the Kingdom came when the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, and thousands accepted Christ (Acts 2:1-47)

- Jesus may have been referring to his Transfiguration, which served as a glimpse of His heavenly glory

- Jesus may have been referring to the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD)

- Jesus may have been referring to His resurrection

I realise that this is TFL...but I felt compelled to answer this.

The vast majority of the individuals listed were nuts...they used the Church as a tool, for their own ends. Others are just using the title "Christian" to hide what they really are/were.

Some were just flat out wrong. But, the Bible itself doesnt make a prediction about any of the dates concerning Christs return, in fact its pretty specific that nobody knows except God the Father. Even Jesus didnt know.

Not intended as a flame, just an explaination of what Christians believe, and what the Bible says about it. :)



[This message has been edited by Grenadier2 (edited August 06, 1999).]
 
DC: I respectfully disagree.Yes this moment is the only life we have right now...but the past is alive in us. My parents have been dead about twenty-five years and they live in me every day. I dont want to make that sound too complicated, I hope you understand what I mean.
Of course I COULD just be an old man living in the past.
We all are the sum total of our pasts.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Ed...

Oh yes, I know, they are here everyday....I'm so sad Dad hasn't seen his grandson (big brownie points for me alright :)).
My point was here and now....memories are forever, but life goes on
 
Grenadier 2,

Yes, it is TFL, but it was brought up by someone else, probably as an attack on Christian beliefs. I quit reading it after the first couple of assertions, which are ridiculous to true Christians, as you point out. There are reasons for and fulfillments of what the Lord Jesus said, but the poster isn't prepared to receive them. I didn't attempt to answer because of what Rom. 8:7 and 1 Cor. 2:14 say about such people.

Dire predictions about calamities have been made by people from all walks of life in all ages and circumstances. It may be that the fear produced by the predictions spurred the threatened people into action to stave off the predicted calamity in question, as one of my old college profs suggested.
 
Interesting,

Rikwriter...that smacks of the selfish gene ala (DC help me out here, I know you read this in grad school--Richard Dawkins maybe?). As far as Doomsday is concerned, I'm sure David Koresh and the Weavers saw Armageddon in a Reno moon.

(yeah, my first post) ;)


[This message has been edited by Mendocino (edited August 07, 1999).]
 
Dz, I just can't resist not replying to this post. :)

I won't take the time to answer (one-by-one) all of the examples that you gave. It would take to long and I don't feel like writing a reply that is 3 miles long. Besides, 99% of the predictions that I read (and I didn't read very much of the post) were "doomed to failure" because they didn't line up with Biblical Prophecy.

OTOH, I will defend the prophecies that are directly from the Bible.

You made a reference to Matthew 16:28. In that verse you quoted Jesus as saying "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom."

I have several thoughts on this scripture and I will share them with you. However, before I do, I want you to understand that (a) I'm not a theologian, (b) I'm not a "teacher of prophecy" and (c) I'm not trying to flame you or preach to you. I simply want to point out what I believe this scripture is referring to. Just for the record, I am a christian (by faith) and I have been one since July 1988. Also, I'm a southern baptist.

Okay. So much for the disclaimer. On with the post. :)

In Matthew 16:28, I personally believe Jesus was referring to the fact that several of His Apostles would witness Jesus in His Glory at the Mount of Transfiguration, which is spoken of in Matthew 17:1-8.

I used to think that Jesus was referring to the death of His enemies which would take place at either His Second Coming or at the Great White Throne Judgement when Jesus will judge all of those who died (a physical death) without excepting Him as their Personal Lord and Savior. My original interpretation was wrong, because if you look closely at the CONTEXT of which the verse you referenced was written, then you'll see that Jesus wasn't talking to His enemies but, rather, He was just talking to some of His closest friends, His own disciples.

You also made a reference to the Apostle Paul believing "that Jesus would return and usher in the rapture during the lifetime of the persons who were living in the middle of the 1st century". A scripture reference was not given for this claim so, unfortunately, I cannot, at this time, explain what paul might have meant. I'm not familiar with any verse that even remotely describes what you referred to.

Be VERY CAREFUL of anything or anyone who claims to know when the end of the world is going to take place. As the original post claimed, no one has been right yet. Date setting is risking business because the credibility of those who go around setting those dates is going to be weakened when it is found out that they are wrong. The ultimate litmus test is biblical scripture, itself. If a claim doesn't perfectly line up with the written scripture then, do yourself a favor, and either proceed with extreme caution or just ignore the claim altogether. Not everyone who has been wrong is evil, IMO. Some (like myself at times) simply interpet the scripture incorrectly. I still believe God talks to His people today but anything that I see, hear or read must ultimately line up with scripture. If it doesn't then forget about it.

Again, I'm not trying to force my proverbial finger down your throat and preach to you. I will say this, though. Jesus will return again. Nobody knows exactely when that time will be. There are certain signs that can be looked at (i.e. the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple, the return of the Jewish People to Israel, the recapture of Jerusalem by the Jews, and other similar signs). If you want to find out more about prophecy (from a Christian perspective), then I suggest, on your own time, that you read the books of Daniel, Ezekial, and Reveletion. There is also good prophecy information in the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Matthew. There are other books in the Bible that I could refer you to but the ones that I mentioned are a good foundation to get you started on.

I don't know if you are a Christian or not, Dz, but, if you are really interested, before you start to study, you may want to make a quick prayer for wisdom. It's nothing hard or redundant or special. You just simply ask the Lord to open your (spiritual) eyes and your heart. Be willing to just study the Word objectively and honestly. Throw away any preconceived notions that you may have about Biblical Prophecy (or God, in general). Pretend that you are a member of a jury and that the Bible and Jesus are both on trial. You are looking for the truth. Simply let the evidence speak for itself.

If you want to simply try to understand more about God (Jesus) you can do that by reading the Gospel of John.

Okay, I'm done. Happy hunting.
 
My Pastor has a good idea on this one: He says that everyone that writes a book claiming that the world is going to end should offer a money back guarantee! If the world doesn't end on that date, then send back the book and they will refund your money! :)
 
I DO know when the world will end---in just a few billion years when the sun goes nova. I doubt there will be any humans around at the time, however, since no other species as complex has lasted over a few hundred million years.
 
Let's see if we can gently agree on something.

If you like rifles and I like handguns and we each say so, have we attacked each other? I think not.

If I am not able to believe part of your beliefs, and you do not believe in my beliefs, have we attacked each other? I think not.

I'm concerned that our various, sometimes opposing religious beliefs may become a divisive force, separating gun owners rather than uniting them.

No person on this earth knows my religious beliefs, but if I say I don't agree with your beliefs, that is not an attack. A full-blown defense then may appear to others either as unwarranted preaching or an attack in its own right.

Please don't think I am talking to any single person or small group of persons here. I am speaking to all TFLers, in fact, to all gun owners.

Let's leave room for the other folks beliefs.

Let's not consider a statement of contrary beliefs to be an attack.

Let's not perceive a statement of someone's beliefs as requiring rebuttal.

I'm not so much worried about this thread - everyone has been quite civil. But other threads (in the past) have become verbally violent and had to be locked. Hard feelings then come between us.

In a sense, I feel hypocritical even mentioning this when I consider our political discussions. So, if you feel I am being two-faced on this I'll understand your judgment.

But, I'll bet that my most vociferous political opponent and I could go shooting, have a beer (after the guns are put away, of course), argue about politics and still agree on our goal of restoring our Constitution.

With that in mind, please don't let religious (or anti-religious) fervor, as justified as it may be, become a divisive force between us. Rich says TFL exists to preserve our rights as gun owners and Americans. So we can discuss, disagree, occasionally rant and rave, so long as we all keep marching, united, in the same direction.

Now I feel preachy. (sigh)
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

is where i found that litte :) gem...

i did not write it i just posted it as a discussion incubator

IMHO the human culture is fairly easy to spook into doomsday stampedes

check out the whole http://www.religioustolerance.org/
site, its good reading...
<snip>

WE ARE NOT A TYPICAL RELIGIOUS WEB SITE!

We don't just promote one religion, we describe dozens of faith groups: from Asatru to Christianity to Wicca to
Zoroastrianism. We cover new religious movements, including dangerous cults. We also describe other belief systems, like
Agnosticism, Atheism and Humanism. 

WE ARE NOT A TYPICAL RELIGIOUS WEB SITE!

We don't just promote one religion, we describe dozens of faith groups: from Asatru to Christianity to Wicca to
Zoroastrianism. We cover new religious movements, including dangerous cults. We also describe other belief systems, like
Agnosticism, Atheism and Humanism. 

We don't just explain controversial topics from one point of view; we describe all sides of of issues like abortion,
physician assisted suicide, capital punishment, evolution and creation science, etc. 

We describe the many positive aspects of religion, as well as the negative ones. 

Our task is to provide to our readers accurate information and an appreciation of the wonderful diversity of religious beliefs
in North America and around the world.

Our task is to provide to our readers accurate information and an appreciation of the wonderful diversity of religious beliefs
in North America and around the world.
 
OK Maybe we try to "over-define" ourselves in order to clarify our personal beliefs and preferences, but in the end the reason ALL of us are here is GUNS. And you are either FOR or AGAINST.

If you are FOR then I dont care if you are a Yankee, or even a John Elway fan, we can agree that we are pro-gun. Lets try to work within the areas where we agree and if you want to convert me on other issues please be gentle!

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
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