oystermick
New member
This smug academic caused my blood to boil. Read it and PLEASE have at him.
http://www.startribune.com/561/story/695627.html
http://www.startribune.com/561/story/695627.html
The Constitution's gun-control pledge
- Thread starter oystermick
- Start date
ITEOTWAWKI
Moderator
He doesn't take into consideration the extent with which the government has become destructive to the ends it was supposed to have. And what ever happened to 'no standing army'...Without that, it might have only been texas invading iraq 
Isn't this descriptive of what's happening today? Our unalianable Rights are being usurped everyday.
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
badbob
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
badbob
Framers Guaranteed Right to Bear Arms to Defend Against Tyranny -
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_7_17/ai_72328635
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_7_17/ai_72328635
He is right in some of his arguments. However what he fails to recognize is that gun regulation is a tool the anti-gun crowd is using to deny law abiding citizens thier right to own a firearm. The question he didnt answer: If a government denies the citizens its rights under the BOR is it still a constitutional government? His argument is similar to a mule with blinders on.
MeekAndMild
New member
As an amateur historian with almost as much reading as this joker I fail to see how regulating the militia has anything to do with gun control. The FFs knew that militias could be unweildy and inept, so required a good bit of TLC - what we now call command, control, communication. But they were often required to bring their own guns. As late as the War of 1812 citizens were bringing their own heavy artilllery, as in the Battle of New Orleans.
ITEOTWAWKI
Moderator
Meek, now should there be any difference between that example and myself as a private citizen being allowed to possess an M203 grenade launcher with incendiary rounds?
Hows THAT'D be for a zombie gun!
Mmm...incendiary rounds...
(Edited...sigh)
Ok, after a brief search into the world of the m203a1, I've unfortunately learned that there are no incendiary rounds...you've got the buckshot, smoke, cs gas, illumination, and high explosive...But no incendiary. Unless the illumination ones use white phosphorus. Anyone here know about this?)
(Double edit)
After reading wikipedia's entry on the m203, I traveled along and read the entry on the National Firearms Act. The very same act that makes each individual round for the m203 require a $200 dollar tax. Here's an interesting quote: "The transfer tax of $200 placed on the transfer of firearms controlled by the Act was equivalent to roughly five months salary in 1934, and this was during the Great Depression." Maybe oneday after the dollar's gone to hell we can pick these suckers up a little easier...
(Final edit)
Is the NFA tax required for non-explosive grenade rounds? Such as the buckshot? That'd be interesting to have on the end of your m4...ooh, or even slugs. A 40mm slug. Yowza!
Hows THAT'D be for a zombie gun!
Mmm...incendiary rounds...
(Edited...sigh)
Ok, after a brief search into the world of the m203a1, I've unfortunately learned that there are no incendiary rounds...you've got the buckshot, smoke, cs gas, illumination, and high explosive...But no incendiary. Unless the illumination ones use white phosphorus. Anyone here know about this?)
(Double edit)
After reading wikipedia's entry on the m203, I traveled along and read the entry on the National Firearms Act. The very same act that makes each individual round for the m203 require a $200 dollar tax. Here's an interesting quote: "The transfer tax of $200 placed on the transfer of firearms controlled by the Act was equivalent to roughly five months salary in 1934, and this was during the Great Depression." Maybe oneday after the dollar's gone to hell we can pick these suckers up a little easier...
(Final edit)
Is the NFA tax required for non-explosive grenade rounds? Such as the buckshot? That'd be interesting to have on the end of your m4...ooh, or even slugs. A 40mm slug. Yowza!
tony pasley
New member
If my memory serves correctly one of the first gun laws was to inspect the homes firearms to be sure the person owned a firearm.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
He claims that the reason the SCOTUS hasn't taken a significant 2A case in decades is because it's one of the most settled issued in law. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that the SCOTUS has shirked or abdicated its duty to interpret the law in this area, and has left us with a circuit split, oodles of confusion and contrary law review articles on the subject, on both sides.
Edward429451
Moderator
That guy sure does have a big imagination. Well regulated in this context means 'so as to operate accurately...' or in simpler terms...being a good shot, able to qualify to a standard...
The danger in that article is that it is a fairly well concocted lie and the simple minds the schools are turning out will believe it over time. If you tell a lie long enough....(and fail to teach critical thinking skills...)
In case you wondered if YOU are well regulated or not...
It's 8 out of 10 shots on a 9" target (a 9"paper plate) at 100 yds, offhand.
The danger in that article is that it is a fairly well concocted lie and the simple minds the schools are turning out will believe it over time. If you tell a lie long enough....(and fail to teach critical thinking skills...)
In case you wondered if YOU are well regulated or not...
It's 8 out of 10 shots on a 9" target (a 9"paper plate) at 100 yds, offhand.
Argue with the Devil and you will lose every time... 
It is the same old wormtonguing we always hear from the Liberals...
Logic doesn't matter...
and... "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" will NEVER be acknowledged by them... and will always be infringed by them...
And, of course, Clinton did all he could to stop Osama Bin Laden. 9/11 isn't his fault.
And, of course, every body knows what great respect the Clintons had for the Military and the Intelligence Community... Just ask Clinton about his history with the "Nuclear Football"
It is the same old wormtonguing we always hear from the Liberals...
Logic doesn't matter...
and... "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" will NEVER be acknowledged by them... and will always be infringed by them...
And, of course, Clinton did all he could to stop Osama Bin Laden. 9/11 isn't his fault.
And, of course, every body knows what great respect the Clintons had for the Military and the Intelligence Community... Just ask Clinton about his history with the "Nuclear Football"
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Northern Sod Breaker
New member
Given the source I'm not surprised in the least. I've had the displeasure of reading their paper in print. EXTREME liberal bias. The paper officialy endorsed Kerry for President. You don't get much more biased then that. If this makes your blood boil then you'll blow a radiator hose if you ever read their entire op/ed section. STAY AWAY
Epyon and Pointer both caught the falacy of the anti-gun libs; they concentrate on the "militia" part of the 2nd Amendment but TOTALLY IGNORE the "right of the PEOPLE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" part.
Just more crap from the Left, and don't give me that line about the author not taking sides but only being a "historian". If he were a historian, he'd be taking into consideration ALL things written about any of the Constitution and not just those things that support his obviously agenda driven position.
Carter
Just more crap from the Left, and don't give me that line about the author not taking sides but only being a "historian". If he were a historian, he'd be taking into consideration ALL things written about any of the Constitution and not just those things that support his obviously agenda driven position.
Carter
MeekAndMild
New member
ITEOTWAWKI I have no objection to you being able to legally buy a grenade launcher at the local drugstore as long as you're willing to wag it over to the Iraq and spend six months using it to drop shells on the bad guys. Of course if we relied on militia and not a standing army chances are we'd not be in Iraq in the first place. Militia would probably be called out to El Paso and San Diego instead.
ITEOTWAWKI
Moderator
Meek, I'm all for it. If you serve your time in the military, you should be exempt from having to pay nfa taxes ever again. Period. And with regards to the militia, you're right and right.
Glockamolie
New member
MeekandMild...
Man oh man, how true would that be. I firmly believe that we SHOULD be given the rights to own rocket launchers, grenades, fully automatic firearms etc. Hey why the F*&^k does Hezbollah, and other third world countries get to have all the awesome toys for less than $50 but for a LAW ABIDING AMERICAN, we have to pay $200 AND a few THOUSAND dollars just for ONE fully automatic rifle? I guess the clause, "shall not be infringed" got rubbed out by accident?:barf:
Epyon
Man oh man, how true would that be. I firmly believe that we SHOULD be given the rights to own rocket launchers, grenades, fully automatic firearms etc. Hey why the F*&^k does Hezbollah, and other third world countries get to have all the awesome toys for less than $50 but for a LAW ABIDING AMERICAN, we have to pay $200 AND a few THOUSAND dollars just for ONE fully automatic rifle? I guess the clause, "shall not be infringed" got rubbed out by accident?:barf:
Epyon
Huchahucha
New member
You guys crack me up. You're all bent out of shape about this history professor, and he's not even the one that wrote the newspaper article. And anyway, why is what the professor is saying so upsetting? Think about it - if you were going to start a militia, whenever somebody joined would you take their word that they had hardware that was useful to the cause or would you demand to see what they had and how much of it? But what the hell does it matter anyway? If I understand the professor correctly he's saying the 2nd amendment was planned with state run militias in mind - well there aren't any state run militias, so that pretty much makes his point null and void doesn't it?
Furthermore, even if every state was allowed to regulate guns as they see fit, there isn't anything in the Constitution that says you can't move to a less restrictive state, like these guys are advocating:
freestateproject.org
Furthermore, even if every state was allowed to regulate guns as they see fit, there isn't anything in the Constitution that says you can't move to a less restrictive state, like these guys are advocating:
freestateproject.org
Nobody's complaining about properly regulating the militia...
We are complaining about the OBVIOUSly one-sided stance which totally ignore the right of the people to keep and bear arms...
We are complaining about the infringements on that right...
And we are complaining that this article has been introduced as an objective report from an objective source because it is OBVIOUS that it is not at all objective in any manner whatsoever...
And I am complaining that liberals are practicing these falsehoods so continuously that they are becoming lovers of their own lies, SO MUCH SO, that they don't even see the OBVIOUS faults in their arguments.
Secondly, the damned Liberals have followed people from the liberal states
screwed up by them... into the Conservative states to get away from the crime, debauchery and traffic jams etc and are in the process of screwing up these states as well... Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Florida, Montana, Idaho and the Dakotas...
Most of the new demographics in these states are liberals coming in from Washington, Oregon, Kalifornica, etc... And when they arrive they are dissatisfied with everything from Jeep trails in the desert to Conservative public schools...
And, they are taking over with their wormtonguing ways and destroying the VERY DAMNED REASONS they moved into the state in the first place...
All your leftwing liberal celebrities have left LOST Angeles, Kalifornica and bought obscene amounts of land (A third of a million acres plus) in all of these great CONSERVATIVE states and are really pissed when they learn that the states are full of the Conservatives who made conditions so inviting...
Ted Turner
Insane Fonda
Dummy Moore
Isn't it interesting how these SOCIALISTS want socialism for everyone but themselves?
So, it is no surprize that they want gun infringements for everyone but themselves...
Yeah! they do like guns for themselves... but you are too stupid to be responsible with a gun...
We are complaining about the OBVIOUSly one-sided stance which totally ignore the right of the people to keep and bear arms...
We are complaining about the infringements on that right...
And we are complaining that this article has been introduced as an objective report from an objective source because it is OBVIOUS that it is not at all objective in any manner whatsoever...
And I am complaining that liberals are practicing these falsehoods so continuously that they are becoming lovers of their own lies, SO MUCH SO, that they don't even see the OBVIOUS faults in their arguments.
First it is MY RIGHT to live where I am without being forced to move to another State to maintain my gun rights...
Secondly, the damned Liberals have followed people from the liberal states
screwed up by them... into the Conservative states to get away from the crime, debauchery and traffic jams etc and are in the process of screwing up these states as well... Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Florida, Montana, Idaho and the Dakotas...
Most of the new demographics in these states are liberals coming in from Washington, Oregon, Kalifornica, etc... And when they arrive they are dissatisfied with everything from Jeep trails in the desert to Conservative public schools...
And, they are taking over with their wormtonguing ways and destroying the VERY DAMNED REASONS they moved into the state in the first place...
All your leftwing liberal celebrities have left LOST Angeles, Kalifornica and bought obscene amounts of land (A third of a million acres plus) in all of these great CONSERVATIVE states and are really pissed when they learn that the states are full of the Conservatives who made conditions so inviting...
Ted Turner
Insane Fonda
Dummy Moore
Isn't it interesting how these SOCIALISTS want socialism for everyone but themselves?
So, it is no surprize that they want gun infringements for everyone but themselves...
Yeah! they do like guns for themselves... but you are too stupid to be responsible with a gun...
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