The Best of the Best...

R

RepublicThunderbolt

New member
And the worst of the worst...

I have a few things to report from the Ft. Lauderdale Air & Sea Show, for anyone who might find such to be of interest.

Shortly after the beginning of the show, the U.S. Army Golden Knights performed the standard flag jump. As I doffed my cover for our flag and national anthem, I was rather dismayed to hear "Oh, Canada" being performed. Now, I have nothing against Canadians. There were probably quite a number of part-time residents from Canada in attendance, and the Snowbird team was going to perform, but this isn't Canada. I wouldn't expect to hear the "Star Spangled Banner" in Moosejaw, why play their anthem here? There were certainly more people of Cuban or other Latino extraction there than Canadians. There was a group of older Germans close to were I was, but I certainly wasn't expecting a rendition of "Deutschland uber Alles", either. At any rate, they "got around" to our anthem, eventually.

Also, the Army had a tent set up with a number of small arms on display and for handling. The best of these consisted of a nice M2HB and almost immaculate BAR. Also included were some rather beat-up arms: a pair of AK's (one a Romanian fore-grip type, I believe the other was perhaps Bulgarian), a XM-177, a M3A1 with a curious conical flash-hider and a Model 12 shotgun.

This was somewhat disquieting as hordes of children would rush up and dry-fire the weapons in more or less any direction. Maybe I'm being a bit of a codger with this, but I don't think it's all that wise to have kids thinking it's great fun to grab up a real firearm and pull the trigger, without any thought as to safety.

To further my already somewhat disparaging opinion of this enterprise, I overheard the gray-haired sergeant in charge of the table solemnly intoning some interesting "facts" to the mother of two of the children there. First, he explained the term "AK" refers to "Anthony" Kalashnikov, the rifle's designer (no doubt Mikhail Timofeyevich would have been quite pleased to learn of this "redesignation" of his Avtomat Kalashnikova). He proceeded to explain that the round fired by the AK would "...make you bleed if you got hit in the leg or something". With a dramatic flourish, he then snatched up the Grease Gun and demonstrated its larger bore, declaring fervently "Now this will blow a hole in an elephant!"

Perhaps he thought the flash-hider made the old .45 subgun into some sort of retro-ultra-powered blunderbuss. My guess would be that this fellow hadn't fired anything more powerful than the M767 11mm stapler down at the recruiting office since basic. At this point, some wunderkind managed to push out the rear takedown pin of the XM-177 and pull out the bolt, carrier and charing handle. The sergeant, attempting to reassemble the weapon, said "It won't go back in." This attracted the attention of a captain. He came over, snapped the bolt forward on the carrier with a flick of his wrist, and reassembled the weapon. He then asked the sergeant somewhat sardonically "Aren't you supposed to be watching this stuff?"

[This message has been edited by RepublicThunderbolt (edited May 08, 2000).]
 
RT, theoretically the national anthem of visitors *should* be played to honor them (it's all part of the 18th century etiquette, along with gun salutes and the like). However, an airshow is not really the proper venue for playing the anthem anyway, since most everybody is ignoring the twit on the PA system and the bulk of the crowd is either crawling over the static displays or standing in line for another $4 hotdog. I prefer the anthem to be reserved for situations of import, not entertainment venues. I think we cheapen the anthem (and the Pledge of Allegiance) by doing them at every softball game, dog show, etc.

As for those "little-known facts" our military has a long history of cluelessness on such subjects. I recall a tale where a guy in AIT (or whatever it was called back then) was trying to convince the SGT that the cartridge used in the M1 rifle was the same thing as the commercial .30-06. The SGT had memorized the standard unusable facts (i.e. muzzle velocity and bullet weight) but not the rather important fact that the cartridge could be found at the local hardware store if necessary.
 
Don't knock the M767 sir! I cut my teeth on this particular "firearm" in second grade. The stopping power's not much, but it's highly accurate at close range and delivers minimal recoil. Was it a dreaded "hi-cap" M767? Only the military "needs" one of those.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>“He proceeded to explain that the round fired by the AK would "...make you bleed if you got hit in the leg or something". With a dramatic flourish, he then snatched up the Grease Gun and demonstrated its larger bore, declaring fervently "now this will blow a hole in an elephant!”[/quote]

Uh, this guy is on our side?
 
The national anthem doesn't bother me. You had visitors from Canada. Chill a bit.

Went to an airshow and the announcer said we would have a flyby of a B-1B at 500 ft. and Mach 7. Now that would have been something to see and hear. He was later corrected.

While the army dude might be dumb, lot's of gun folks say silly things also. Some right here - maybe even me.
 
Just because someone is in the Army doesn't mean he/she knows anything about small arms.

Unless he is an Infantryman his exposeure to small arms is usually limited to once a year qualification with an M16. Evena an Infantryman will usually only be knowledgable of US weapons.

Small arms are not as important to the Army as they are to us here on TFL. The majority of the Army is not in the Infantry, but in some branch that supports the Infantry. In many of those branches, small arms are considered secondary. Many MTOEs don't even list small arms as items that are required so that the unit can perform it's mission.

Commanders of these support units tend to look at weapons training and qualification requirements as things that distract them from performing their primary mission.

Many "urban legends" concerning small arms are regarded as gospel among soldiers, even in the combat arms. Here are some myths I have heard in 26 years in Infantry and Artillery units:

Soviet block small arms are designed so that they can shoot our ammunition in their weapons but we can't shoot theirs in ours. Imagine trying to shoot 7.62x51 out of a 7.62x39 AK :)

If you go to war, take a file and work on the rifling at the end of your barrel, this will make the bullet tumble in flight and rip off arms and legs when it hits. But don't get caught, because it's against the Geneva Convention to do so.

There are all kinds of stories like this floating around that soldiers consider gospel.

The only really knowledgable people are soldiers with a personal interest in marksmanship and history, soldiers assigned to marksmanship units and the Foreign Military Equipment Detachments in Military Intellegence units.

Jeff
 
Glenn,
Most soldiers are briefed annually on both the Geneva and Hague conventions. Geneva convention seems to be the generic term for the various laws of land warfare even among the military. I guess because they hear it so much in the media.
Jeff
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff White:
Just because someone is in the Army doesn't mean he/she knows anything about small arms.

Many "urban legends" concerning small arms are regarded as gospel among soldiers, even in the combat arms. Here are some myths I have heard in 26 years in Infantry and Artillery units:

Soviet block small arms are designed so that they can shoot our ammunition in their weapons but we can't shoot theirs in ours. Imagine trying to shoot 7.62x51 out of a 7.62x39 AK :)


[/quote]

About the only interchangability I am aware of was mortar rounds. We had a 60mm mortar, they had a 61mm tube. We have a 81mm tube, they had a 82mm tube. Our rounds would fire in theirs, etc.

I received a briefing years ago that the MIG-23 Flogger fighter-interceptor and the MIG-27 ground attack version of the Flogger had NATO standard servicing points and the wheels from the F-4 Phantom would fit it. That made sense if the Warsaw Pact intended to overrun NATO airfields and wanted to forward deploy their aircraft on the captured fields.
 
Bruels,
I am aware of the mortars, but I've heard the 7.62 mm rifle tale more times then I can count.

Another rumor was that the U.S. maintained large stocks of M14s and that if we ever deployed to an environment where the longer range of the 7.62 round was desirable we would be issued them. I think the Gulf war debunked that one though.

What I'm trying to point out is that the average TFL member is probably more knowledgable about weapons and shooting then the average soldier.

Jeff
 
Here in California, to purchase a handgun you must possess a Basic Firearms Safety Certificate which says you have attended a class and passed a basic safety test. Exceptions to the rule are active and retired peace officers, people with hunter safety cards, security guards with firearms endorsement on their card, and a host of others. One of the most amusing assumptions of the legislature when this law was passed was that active duty military, reservists, national guardsmen, and honorably discharged military are all educated and "safe" with firearms. Therefore they do not have to have a BFSC.

Recently one of our acquaintances, a Navy flight surgeon and general surgeon, was summoned to her mother's house after her father had died. Mother wanted her to remove from the house a rifle her father had owned. She (naval officer) hadn't a clue how to clear the rifle, make it safe and so forth. She had to get someone else to make the rifle safe. However, by California law she can purchase a handgun without having to pass the test and obtain a BFSC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top