The best for defense: Ruger PC carbine or mini14?
- Thread starter TCW
- Start date
More knowledgeable and experienced members than I will no doubt tell you that how it depends on how "offensive" your defense is going to be. Given penetration concerns with the .223 you might be better off with a pistol-caliber carbine at close quarters. At 100 yards it's a different story, but you will probably have trouble justifying that as "defensive" shooting.
Quantum Singularity
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ledbetter:
I'm considering a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45. Any comparisons to the Rugers?[/quote]
I have heard both good and bad. A positive: Its generally a reliable design. Now for the bad news: Gun Tests brought up a major durability concern with the Marlin. Marlin doesn't recommend +P ammo as it damage the gun. A carbine/rifle should be able to fire more powerful ammo than a pistol. I question a rifle that can't handle +P ammo (as did Gun Tests).
I'm considering a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45. Any comparisons to the Rugers?[/quote]
I have heard both good and bad. A positive: Its generally a reliable design. Now for the bad news: Gun Tests brought up a major durability concern with the Marlin. Marlin doesn't recommend +P ammo as it damage the gun. A carbine/rifle should be able to fire more powerful ammo than a pistol. I question a rifle that can't handle +P ammo (as did Gun Tests).
Sam Norton
New member
I have the Ruger PC-9. It is my choice for a house gun. The muzzle blast from my SR-3 (.223 AK)would make you deaf indoors or close to it, The PC-9 shooting Corbon +P 115 gives you roughly 357 pistol power with 22 pistol noise,and less chance of over penetration. I am only average with a rifle. But shooting bowling pins with very little practice I could do double taps so fast I could hit pins twice before they had a chance to fall consistently. With some trigger work the gun just shoots great. However out past 25 yards outdoors I would choose the 223. Hope this helps.
Best Regards
Sam
Best Regards
Sam
I don't own either one, as my personal choice in a civilian defensive carbine is the 1894C Marlin in .357 Magnum.
But I dropped by the range last week to help a pal sight in a rifle. We had to wait a while as the range was occupied by LEO's practicing with their new Ruger PC4's. We were shooting a Ruger bolt .44 Mag, and one officer wandered over to check it out. He said he wished THAT was what they issued him, and when I asked why the PC was picked to replace the .223's formerly issued, he said it was so the long gun could use the same ammo as their issue .40 Glocks. He had two spare mags for his Glock on his hip, and two mags for the Ruger carbine in a butt cuff on the rifle. AND THE MAGAZINES WEREN'T INTERCHANGEABLE. So where's the sense in that? You might as well have the increased range and power of the .223, if your magazines aren't the same and you can't do a quick switch anyway.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
But I dropped by the range last week to help a pal sight in a rifle. We had to wait a while as the range was occupied by LEO's practicing with their new Ruger PC4's. We were shooting a Ruger bolt .44 Mag, and one officer wandered over to check it out. He said he wished THAT was what they issued him, and when I asked why the PC was picked to replace the .223's formerly issued, he said it was so the long gun could use the same ammo as their issue .40 Glocks. He had two spare mags for his Glock on his hip, and two mags for the Ruger carbine in a butt cuff on the rifle. AND THE MAGAZINES WEREN'T INTERCHANGEABLE. So where's the sense in that? You might as well have the increased range and power of the .223, if your magazines aren't the same and you can't do a quick switch anyway.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
I would say it depends on what the background is like. I wouldn't want to shoot my Mini 14 in a dense residential area.
Re: The Marlin Camp in .45. Over at GlockTalk, turbonatr reports no durability probs with his despite extensive firing of .45 Super. Apparently, the factory recoil sring is some ridiculously gimpy 11 or 12 pound unit and even +P's can pound the thing to death in short order. He has a spring from, I believe, Wolff, rated at 22 lbs or so that solved this little faux pas...
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
If you are truly talking "defense" with this rifle, then I have to give the nod to the PC9. I used to own a Mini, but all the aftermarket mags I ever tried in it were junk. I never owned one mag except the factory five rounder that I could bet my life on. I know that in Kali, you can only go 10 rounds, but that's still twice as many rounds!!
Also, reloading is slower on the mini, since the mag goes in like the AK, or M1A, although not as smooth as the M1A. I don't see how the added velocity of the .223 would benefit in any way in a civilian defense situation.
If I liked the way the stick mags worked on the AR design, I'd have converted my Bushmaster AR with an Oly 9mm or .40 upper long ago!
But that's just my opinion, and probably not a very good one at that!
Also, reloading is slower on the mini, since the mag goes in like the AK, or M1A, although not as smooth as the M1A. I don't see how the added velocity of the .223 would benefit in any way in a civilian defense situation.
If I liked the way the stick mags worked on the AR design, I'd have converted my Bushmaster AR with an Oly 9mm or .40 upper long ago!
But that's just my opinion, and probably not a very good one at that!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slabsides:
He had two spare mags for his Glock on his hip, and two mags for the Ruger carbine in a butt cuff on the rifle. AND THE MAGAZINES WEREN'T INTERCHANGEABLE. So where's the sense in that? You might as well have the increased range and power of the .223, if your magazines aren't the same and you can't do a quick switch anyway.
[/quote]
Somebody's PD armourer wasn't doing their homework!!! The Ruger PC4 & PC9 have an available conversion to use Glock Mags!!! An excellent move on Ruger's part, since I doubt many PD's use the Ruger as the "issue" firearm. But, since LE and civilian needs are MUCH different, I agree with you on this one that a .223 (Mini-14) is a much better choice for a Police officer. Also, the Ruger factory 30 rounders are available to them, and that makes it an even better option.
But as a civilian, I still think the PC9/PC4 is the better option. Even if you don't get the Glock conversion, Hi-cap Ruger mags are still available! Factory mags still only run about $35 a piece! aftermarkets are much cheaper. (But of course, not available in the USSR (Kalifornia)
Glamdring - I'd be darned surprised if someone doesn't offer a 10 rounder fairly soon. I also hope someone cranks out a polymer stock... I'm just not fond of wood. If a Choate pistol-grip stock ever pops up, I'm all over the little .44 Carbine!!!
[This message has been edited by Onslaught (edited October 26, 2000).]
He had two spare mags for his Glock on his hip, and two mags for the Ruger carbine in a butt cuff on the rifle. AND THE MAGAZINES WEREN'T INTERCHANGEABLE. So where's the sense in that? You might as well have the increased range and power of the .223, if your magazines aren't the same and you can't do a quick switch anyway.
[/quote]
Somebody's PD armourer wasn't doing their homework!!! The Ruger PC4 & PC9 have an available conversion to use Glock Mags!!! An excellent move on Ruger's part, since I doubt many PD's use the Ruger as the "issue" firearm. But, since LE and civilian needs are MUCH different, I agree with you on this one that a .223 (Mini-14) is a much better choice for a Police officer. Also, the Ruger factory 30 rounders are available to them, and that makes it an even better option.
But as a civilian, I still think the PC9/PC4 is the better option. Even if you don't get the Glock conversion, Hi-cap Ruger mags are still available! Factory mags still only run about $35 a piece! aftermarkets are much cheaper. (But of course, not available in the USSR (Kalifornia)
Glamdring - I'd be darned surprised if someone doesn't offer a 10 rounder fairly soon. I also hope someone cranks out a polymer stock... I'm just not fond of wood. If a Choate pistol-grip stock ever pops up, I'm all over the little .44 Carbine!!!
[This message has been edited by Onslaught (edited October 26, 2000).]
A theory on why ruger doesn't make the 10 rounders.....
They don't sell their wares to the self defense crowd. It's all sporting (Deerslayer) or police (Police carbine/Politically correct carbine).
Same reason they didn't really release factory mags of over 5 rounds to the public.
They want to sell the prospective buyer two guns: the deerslayer for hunting, and a pistol or PC for HD.
They don't sell their wares to the self defense crowd. It's all sporting (Deerslayer) or police (Police carbine/Politically correct carbine).
Same reason they didn't really release factory mags of over 5 rounds to the public.
They want to sell the prospective buyer two guns: the deerslayer for hunting, and a pistol or PC for HD.
Edmund Rowe
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Onslaught:
If you are truly talking "defense" with this rifle, then I have to give the nod to the PC9. I used to own a Mini, but all the aftermarket mags I ever tried in it were junk. I never owned one mag except the factory five rounder that I could bet my life on. I know that in Kali, you can only go 10 rounds, but that's still twice as many rounds!!
Also, reloading is slower on the mini, since the mag goes in like the AK, or M1A, although not as smooth as the M1A. I don't see how the added velocity of the .223 would benefit in any way in a civilian defense situation.
[/quote]
Onslaught: I hear ya on the aftermarket mags. This is one of the biggest problems with owning a Mini-14 IMHO.
However, if I could have a long arm fully wrung out ahead of time to bet my butt on, I'd really want that .223 instead of a 9mm or .40 cartridge. Pistol rounds can, and often do skid or bounce off bones like the skull, while rifle rounds tend to punch through (blasting bits of bone through the body on the way). High velocity rounds like the .223 will also cause a lot of tissue damage from the hypersonic shock waves that aren't seen with pistol rounds. (at least not until we see pistols shooting stuff over 2500 fps. That's about the threshold for the real nasty stuff to start happening. Note the threshold is not mach 1, it's like mach 2.5 or something).
But this is just me. I'm pretty protective of my own hide.
Edmund
If you are truly talking "defense" with this rifle, then I have to give the nod to the PC9. I used to own a Mini, but all the aftermarket mags I ever tried in it were junk. I never owned one mag except the factory five rounder that I could bet my life on. I know that in Kali, you can only go 10 rounds, but that's still twice as many rounds!!
Also, reloading is slower on the mini, since the mag goes in like the AK, or M1A, although not as smooth as the M1A. I don't see how the added velocity of the .223 would benefit in any way in a civilian defense situation.
[/quote]
Onslaught: I hear ya on the aftermarket mags. This is one of the biggest problems with owning a Mini-14 IMHO.
However, if I could have a long arm fully wrung out ahead of time to bet my butt on, I'd really want that .223 instead of a 9mm or .40 cartridge. Pistol rounds can, and often do skid or bounce off bones like the skull, while rifle rounds tend to punch through (blasting bits of bone through the body on the way). High velocity rounds like the .223 will also cause a lot of tissue damage from the hypersonic shock waves that aren't seen with pistol rounds. (at least not until we see pistols shooting stuff over 2500 fps. That's about the threshold for the real nasty stuff to start happening. Note the threshold is not mach 1, it's like mach 2.5 or something).
But this is just me. I'm pretty protective of my own hide.
Edmund
.223 is not as over-penetrating as people think...Due to its light bullet at such high velocities it tends to fragment inside bodies and also is less penetrating through Walls due to light bullet..
you can check out the Firearms tactical Institute for more info.
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
you can check out the Firearms tactical Institute for more info.
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
Jamie Young
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin-Tao:
Is there anyway on Earth that someone could make a mag-well adaptor that will let the Mini14 take US GI mags. An adaptor exists for the Galil. Why can't there be one for the Mini?[/quote]
You know I first read that on another post a few weeks ago. I think that would be a great Idea and it would solve a major problem with Mini-14 Mags. I seriously doubt Ruger is ever going to make 10rd mags.
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"Bring 'Em on.... I prefer a Straight Fight to all this sneaking around"
Han Solo
Is there anyway on Earth that someone could make a mag-well adaptor that will let the Mini14 take US GI mags. An adaptor exists for the Galil. Why can't there be one for the Mini?[/quote]
You know I first read that on another post a few weeks ago. I think that would be a great Idea and it would solve a major problem with Mini-14 Mags. I seriously doubt Ruger is ever going to make 10rd mags.
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"Bring 'Em on.... I prefer a Straight Fight to all this sneaking around"
Han Solo
