the best buy in Remington 700 series

V

vince weng

New member
I am looking for a precise varmint rifle (in .223 and shoot under 1MOA). The precision and reliability are my fist priorities. I narrow down to Remington 700 series and still I am open to all your opinions. Could anyone tell me which one in 700 series is the best buy or any other rifle you think can also meet my requirements.

Is any big difference between BDL and ADL besides their stocks? The prices are a big gap.

The savage 10FP rifles are also good. Can anyone give me your suggestions on savage rifles too.
 
You're correct in that the difference between the ADL (A Grade, Deluxe) and BDL (B Grade, Deluxe) is in the stock. The ADL has a blind magazine and the BDL has a floorplate. The BDM is like the Savage in that it features a detachable box magazine. For the money though, I'd get the Varminter. It is virtually the same firearm as the Remington PSS (Police Sniper) with the difference being, you guessed it, the stock. Both stocks are made by HS Precision (same folks who make the stocks for the Army's M24 Sniper rifle) and the difference is that the Varminter is narrower (easier to carry in the field) and lacks an extra swivel stud for a bipod (big deal). The PSS stock has a wider forearm, is fatter at the wrist and may have a slightly higher comb. For the price difference, I'd go with the Varminter. The Varminter's heavier barrel takes longer to heat up than a sporter barrel and it'll hold a group tighter. By the way, I have a 700 Varminter in .223 and with cheapie surplus ammo, it shoots sub-moa. My brother hand loads and gets 1/2" or better (last time he got 3 shots into the same hole - literally looked like one .223 hole) with his.

One thing about Remington, the trigger may need to be adjusted and while this is not difficult, is one of those things the Factory scorns. So, if you need it adjusted, take it to a gunsmith or better, a factory warranty station (if you want to keep the warranty). If you want to do it yourself, go to Sniper's Paradise and you'll find the instructions there.

The Savage is a good buy for the money. Triggers are terrible though and you can spend $ to get it tuned or buy an aftermarket trigger.

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Varminter, umh.. you mean 700 VS or VLS rifles. I checked the catalog. There is no PSS model you mentioned. Could you specify the product code for PSS.

thanks
 
4V50 Gary:
I checked the catalog. The varminter .223 has twist rate 1 in 12. Savage 10FP is 1 in 9. My BM AR15 is 1 in 9 too. Is 1:12 fast enought to stablize heavy bullets (say 62 or 69)?
 
Vince,

Regarding the use of the heavier 62-69 grain bullet in a slower 1-12 twist, the slower twist would not stabilize those longer, heavier bullets as well as the 1-9 twist. For long range shooting, Colt's 1-7 twist with heavy bullets seem to be the best combination so far (see Glen Zediker- sic?).

Figure out what you want to do with your .223 before you decide. Tack driving accuracy and killing are two different tasks.

For killing, the slower twist allows for greater instability, which makes for nastier wounds. That's why the old military 1-12 or 1-14 was effective. When the military adopted the heavier bullet and the faster twist, range and accuracy improved, but not without a cost. Heavier bullets with little yaw can actually pass through the target. Light bullets which are unstable can stay in, following the path of least resistence.

For an example of the difference in effectiveness, read Mark Bowden's, "Black Hawk Down" about the attempt to snatch Somalian Warload Aidid. Close range hits did not guarentee the BG stayed down.

For further reading on twists and their effects, check the following links:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs13.htm
http://www.ar15.com/products/barrels/twist.asp

For myself, I'm not into combat and using cheapie (read surplus 55 grain) ammo), am quite happy with the Varminter. Oh, mine is the VS (synthetic HS Precision stock and not the VLS, laminated stock). Regarding the PSS, check with your dealer for Law Enforcement Products. My D&R Sports catalog doesn't list them either.

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I know that the slower twist will cause big damage due to the tumbling of bullets. My purpose is not killing but to get a precise target shooting. The instability sacrifices the precision, doesn’t it. Of course this assumes when the target is hit at a pretty long distance. At the range between 100-300 yrds, the precision is good even the slow rate twist is used.
 
This business of arguing for a more unstable bullet is the silliest yet.

Damage done to a missed target by a 55 grain "flying grenade": NOTHING.

Damage done to a center-punched target by even the puny .22 fmj at 2900, even when it just drills right on through: considerable. Perhaps not what we of the the BHB (Big Heavy Bullet) set would like, but considerable.

Let's us remember that this is the Rifle area-- only accurate rifles are interesting.

Regards,
L.P.
 
My apologies for any misunderstanding. There are of two types of instability I was thinking of when I writing and perhaps I confused the issue.

First, there is stability in ensuring that enough spin is emparted on the bullet to ensure its stable flight. Second, there is the stability of the bullet when it strikes a medium: the target. It is the latter with which I was referencing when I made my posting with regards to the slower twist.

I agree that it is better to hit a target with a .22 than miss with a .50. After all, only hits count.



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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Just a quick note on the 700PSS Rifles from Remington. You will not find them in their sporting catalogs as they are Law Enforcement items. These rifles offer a huge bang for the buck if you are looking for a heavy varmint rifle. Both rifles are tack driving son of a guns. The wide forearm of that Kevlar stock works well off sand bags or a bi-pod and doesn't suffer the maladies that can sometime affect a wood stocked 700 Varmint rifles. The 223 version is economical to shoot a lot :). Gun show price around here was in the $600 to $650 range a while back. Put some good glass on it and you're ready to go.

Sid
 
If you're a dyed-in-the-wool Remington fan, this won't interest you, but the Winchester M70HV has a HS Precision stock, with pillor bedding and an aluminum bedding block. The M70 trigger used to be adjustable to under 2lbs. with safety, but mine wouldn't go under 4.5lbs. The Remington barrel may be a higher quality one than the Wilson Winchester uses, but several friends of mine have these rifles, and are quite happy with the accuracy. They are $75-100 under the price of the Remington. Mine shoots moly'd bullets OK, but for some unknown reason, it has turned in its best groups with un-coated bullets.
 
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