the american double action .32 yard sale pa?

S

silver99

Inactive
is this gun safe to sell at yard sales legally? ive read its a smoke powder gun but its still a handgun i know close to nothing about the gun and cant seem to find whether or not its legal for me to pass this gun along to another person by way of private sale

if anyone could clarify thatd be great
thanks !!
 
My assumption (although you know what they say about assuming) is that it would be no different than any other private party sale.

Check ID for age, download a generic bill of sale - both sign, etc.
 
http://www.pafoa.org/law
It should be noted however that all transfers of handguns in Pennsylvania are required to go through the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) and as such the Pennsylvania State Police keep a "Sales Database" of all handguns purchased within the Commonwealth. While almost any casual observer can see that this database clearly violates the spirit of 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms), in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed with the Pennsylvania State Police that because the database is not a complete record of all handgun ownership (as people bringing handguns into the state do not have to register them), it does not.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Pennsylvania
Private sales of handguns must go through a licensed dealer,

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/pennsylvania.aspx
PURCHASE
Any individual or dealer selling a handgun is required to sell or transfer it at the place of business of a licensed dealer or county sheriff’s office. Transfers of all firearms (handguns, rifles and shotguns) by a licensed dealer are subject to an instant records check of the purchaser. The purchaser must sign a transfer application/record of sale for the purchase of a handgun. No transfer application/record is necessary to transfer a rifle or shotgun. There is a $2 fee for the instant check and a $3 firearm sale surcharge to cover telephone costs. Transfers of handguns between spouses, parent and child, grandparent and grandchild or between active law enforcement officers are exempt from the above requirements. Rifles and shotguns may be transferred between unlicensed individuals. Antique firearms are exempt from the requirements regarding transfer of firearms through dealers.

NRA is the only source mentioning an antique exemption.

Is it an antique? Are you SURE it is an antique? Can you PROVE it is an antique? (What is the definition of an antique in Pennsylvania? The same as the BATF pre-1898 or Something Else? Old does not necessarily mean antique under the law.)
 
Verify if it is an antique.

If it is an antique, only capable of use with black powder & can't use a modern cartridge case then it should be covered by the same rules & laws as a cap & ball revolver. In that case whatever federal, state & loacal laws, if there are any, that apply to such pistols would be in effect.

However, if it fails any one of the qualifications for an antique black powder revolver its exactly the same as a modern handgun.
 
You would make a fine lawyer, Mr. Watson!
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Me Sainted Mum said I ought to study the law.
That with training in both engineering and law, I could do well in court bringing out the technical details.
 
If it is an antique, only capable of use with black powder & can't use a modern cartridge case then it should be covered by the same rules & laws as a cap & ball revolver.
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Thats not the definition of an antique. Its any firearm manufactured before 1898. Powder type does not matter. However, it cannot be CONVERTED to a modern chambering. This is also the ATF definition.

http://cd.textfiles.com/group42/WEAPONS/LAWS/PA.HTM

Antiques
"Antique firearm" means:
Any firearm, including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system, manufactured in or before 1898, and
Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (1) if such replica:
is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or
Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
Antique and replica handguns cannot be carried without a license or possessed by convicted felons.
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Correct, its the definition of a black powder pistol. Maybe that's why it is restricted to black powder?
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I'm not sure if we are understanding each other. The powder type by itself does NOT indicate antique status. Many smokeless guns are considered antiques. For example, many C-96 "broomhandles" qualify as antique. A black powder gun also could have been made after 1898 making it not an antique. Smokeless powder was around many years before 1898.

If it is an antique, only capable of use with black powder & can't use a modern cartridge case then it should be covered by the same rules & laws as a cap & ball revolver. In that case whatever federal, state & loacal laws, if there are any, that apply to such pistols would be in effect.

However, if it fails any one of the qualifications for an antique black powder revolver its exactly the same as a modern handgun.
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Once again, "modern cartridge case" has nothing to do with this UNLESS CONVERTED. Also "black powder" does not impact the antique status itself although IMO the majority of antiques are BP anyways. I have S&W 38 revolvers in 38 S&W (not special) which are antique, because they were made before 1898 AND original chambering. Also there are no specific rules for a cap and ball revolver, its for ANTIQUES and some antiques happen to be cap and ball revolvers BUT a gun does NOT have to be cap and ball to be an antique. In other words, cap and ball revolvers are nearly all antique, but not all antique firearms are black powder, obsolete ctg or cap and ball. This is a critical distinction to make.

This is directly from the ATF website:

Q: What qualifies as an antique firearm?

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —
...any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
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The problem here and that happens often is how you interpet this defintion (there is only 1 correct interpetation). Many read that to mean ONLY
any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system
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and for nothing else. That is not what is meant here.

The following excerpt also confuses people:

if such replica — is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
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This is dealing with ANTIQUE REPLICAS only. Many people misread this to be about any antique, IE that is has to be chambered in something obsolete. This is also not true. The main criteria is manufacture date before 1899 (on 1898 or before).

Reading and memorizing laws is one thing, comprehending them is another.
 
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