The Alternative

motorhead0922

New member
This is a new product that mounts in front of the muzzle of a gun, "catches" the bullet and then hits the target with much less velocity. The effect on the target is more like that of a bean bag.

howWorks.jpg


It only works for the first round fired, of course. Personally, I don't see law enforcement being very interested. It will take time to install after drawing the gun.

More info here:
http://www.alternativeballistics.com/

Thoughts?
 
I think we have discussed this before or I know other forums have.

Opinion is that it is idiotic for numerous reasons. I couldn't find the thread on a search though.

Might not have the right key words.
 
Try "clown nose" as a search parameter. That should give use an idea of what the shooting community thinks of it. It's meant as a less than lethal alternative

First you have to draw your gun to install the device - when there is arguably not a lethal threat presented. That is going to be part of your defense. If the other person then takes presentation of a gun as the first move and then pulls his out to shoot, who's in the wrong? What will witnesses see?

Even if nothing immediately happens, it presupposes that you can attach the device while the other person stands idly by and does nothing. Well, did you not pull out a gun in response to some level of hostility? There's no reason for anyone to just stand there and wait for you.


It's another answer to a problem that isn't addressed. How did the confrontation get off to a running start to begin with? Somebody - you or him - decided to stand their ground, whether for ego or rights is left for an LEO and his discretion or a court to determine. Not having the confrontation in the first place should have been the preferred course of action.

Plenty can come up with all sorts of artificial scenarios to structure the circumstances toward the use of such a device, but the reality is that armed confrontation is a lot more haphazard and usually involves both parties accepting a high level of risk to even be in close proximity for the confrontation. Nobody likes talking common sense on the internet, tho, what they prefer is the usual "What do you do when you wake up to a knife at your throat!?!" It ignores the dog barking or them hammering down the door.

Same here, you have to ignore a lot of stuff to even get to the point where you would need it, and once you draw your gun it's changing the rules of the confrontation to lethal force even if none was presented.

Bad answer. But it does show that people dream this stuff up because it sells, not because you need it. And that's what 'Murica! is all about.
 
That thing is likely an illegal, unregistered silencer. If it reduces the noise as a result of slowing the bullet below the speed of sound, then it could be classified as a silencer.
 
Making bullets 'less than lethal'

was discussed in some detail in Feb/March this year, in connection with that device. Several good points were raised, particularly that when its a gun there is NO "non lethal" round, and "less than lethal" is a lie. "Less likely to be lethal" is honest, but that doesn't make as good a sound byte.

There is NO place for this gadget in civilian self defense. There might be a place for police use, but there are several drawbacks as it is very specialized stuff.

That thing is likely an illegal, unregistered silencer. If it reduces the noise as a result of slowing the bullet below the speed of sound, then it could be classified as a silencer.

If you stuck a potato on the end of the barrel would it be a silencer??

I suppose it might be, if the law can declare the auto sear from an M16 a machinegun, all by itself, with no gun present, about anything is possible.
:rolleyes:
 
One serious problem with using the device can be seen when watching the video in the press & media section of the website. The demonstrator puts his fingers in front of the muzzle of a loaded gun nearly every time he installs the device in preparation for its use. Not really a great idea.

Another issue is "contagious fire". It's well-documented that officers tend to fire their weapons when they hear gunfire. Now you've got a situation where an officer is shooting although he doesn't mean to use lethal force. That's probably why they've got the guy shouting "Less lethal! Less lethal!" before shooting, but I'm not sure that's going to be effective given that lots of people are likely to be shouting lots of things in that kind of situation.
 
It is one of the axioms of military operations that there is always somebody who does NOT get the word. I expect the same thing happens in police work as well.

I can easily see a situation where several officers are amped up, guns drawn and pointed, ONE using the "less likely to be lethal" round, instantly followed by a hail of 9mm/.40 bullets from other officers in what is nearly an automatic reaction.

It is not a new phenomena, it happened back in the revolver days too. The main difference we note today (aside from the officer's apparently increased willingness to shoot) is that back in the revolver days, a pair of cops might let off 12 rounds, while today, with semis, it can be 30+ shots and each additional officer can add another 15+ rather than a max of 6.
 
Pretty much nobody is trained to make one shot and hold back for results. All the officer has to do is pull the trigger a second time and the whole point of that thing is wasted. What do you think the chances are that in a tense situation in which his firearm is drawn, an officer will only pull the trigger once?
 
That's a very good point. It's pretty common for a person to lose track of the number of shots fired in a stressful scenario.

I've seen a hunting video that shows a hunter firing two shots at a group of hogs and making two hits on two different hogs. He was one of several persons shooting at the sounder. The person making the video told his hunting companions immediately after the fact that he only fired once. And hunting isn't nearly as stressful as a scenario where getting injured or killed is a possibility.
 
Back
Top