The .41 Short Short and .41 Short Long and.....

Bob Wright

New member
Ya'll seemed to enjoy my posts of the .45 "Long" Colt, how about the .41 Short Short Colt and the .41 Long Short Colt and the.............

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I've always been sort of interested in not only revolver developement, but cartridge evolution as well.

Enjoy!

Bob Wright
 
I don't know how Bob put his collection together, but I've put mine together over the years by combing old boxes at yard sales, gun shows, gun shops, antique stores, cartridge collector shows, just about anywhere I can find something I need to fill a gap in my collection.

I've focused more on representative samples, so I've not got quite the breadth that Bob's collection is showing.
 
No kidding. I am assuming that those are live rounds, where in the heck do you find these? Much less information on them?

They are, or were, live rounds. Many have deteriorated to the point they are no longer "live." But they have not been deactivated.

As sources, pretty much what Mike said, plus combing old hardware stores and gunsmiths shops.

As to information Pistol and Revolver Cartridges
by White and Munhall is the most authoritative. Volumes I and II deal with centerfire pistol and revolver cartridges, both metric and Imperial. This is published by the H.P. White Laboratory, the authority for many years on questions regarding ammunition.

Another is U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns 1795-1975 by the late Charles R. Suydam. Suydam was one of the leading authorities on old ammunition.

The Cartridge Guide by Ian V. Hogg is an identification manual based on dimensional data, also good for headstamp identification.

Manual of Pistol and Revolver Cartridges Volume I Centerfire Metric Calibers by Erlmeier Brandt is dual language of English and German of European handgun cartridges.

Don't know of any sources of these books.

The H.P. White Laboratory incidentally, is the one that verified the fact that, several years ago, a Navy F-8 Crusader did in fact shoot itself down with its own gunfire.

Bob Wright
 
The .41 "Short Short" case round was known as the .41 Extra Short.

Actually mine is the .41 S.D.A. headstamped version, the .41 Short Colt Double Action. The Extra short had a lighter bullet and was much shorter overall.

Bob Wright
 
As of this point in time, I believe that all of the books that Bob mentions are out of print.

Several of them, including Suydam's books, can bring pretty hefty prices.

I was shocked several years ago to find that my first edition White and Munhall headstamp guide is worth well over $150.

Oddly enough, though, there are any number of reprints of the books on cartridges available at very good prices. NRA Press apparently churned them out for a number of years.
 
Hello, Bob, It looks like the first three are "heeled" bullets..and the last is inside lubed. Now this brings up somthing that has been puzzling me for awhile. Colt chambered a few of their flat-top target S.A.A. revolvers, including Bisleys in the .38 Colt & .41 Colt. I have always heard of these rounds being marginally accurate on account of the inside lubed bullets being undersize for the bore & depending on a hollow-base to expand & take rifling...Why on earth would Colt chamber a target revolver for an inaccurate ctg.? But I wonder, if they intended them to be fired with the earlier heeled ctgs., with their full dia. groove sized bullets?
 
I really don't know the answer to your question. But from observation: Elimination of heel crimped bullets and inside lubrication did not take place at the same time. For awhile flat based bullets were lubed with a heavy wax like lube. Even flat based bullets had hollow cavities with generous "skirts" to accommodate various bore diameters.

While in the Army at Ft. Carson, Colo., I had a little experience with an old Colt Bisley in .41 Colt caliber. Accuracy was not its long suite. We only had access to currently loaded inside lubed ammo.

Bob Wright
 
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