The .357 is just a fast 9mm

W

wolf 1415

New member
The 9 bashers all love the .357, don't they?

However, drive a 9mm fast enough, and it's now the holy grail. With all due respect to those wiser than I, I submit that the Cor-bon 115 at 1350 fps is no less a man-stopper than the 125 gr. .357 mag. And if the 9mm lacks anything at all, he's got 14 or 15 friends ready to jump in the fray from the Beretta 92.

The 9 suffers from some bad loads, it is not an inferior caliber.

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"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with Army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." Wilson vs. State, Ark. 1878
 
And a Corvette is just a fast Impala.

I love all of my nines. Going into a wooded area with a lot of coyotes, though, I'm packing the .357 Ruger GP100 on my hip, leaving the 9mm's at home, and not second-guessing my decision for one instant.

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Take the long way home...
 
Oh come now, Wolf!

EVERYONE know that the .357s extra .002" in bullet diameter makes a HUGE difference in stopping power! :)

What I think the TRUE culprit is is that too may people are just parroting what they have heard over the years about the 9mm and HARDBALL ammo, especially as compared to .45 ACP hardball ammo.

We used to have this discussion regularly on the old Compuserve Firearms Forum, someone would say how rotten the 9mm is, and that they'll only carry XX caliber... Ugh. Got old after awhile.


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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited June 05, 2000).]
 
I don't think the 9 suffers as much from bad loads as it does from lack of case capacity.

Nine can barely get decent velocity with a 115gr at +P pressures, while a .357 can drive a 200gr at 1330fps and stay in the moderate pressure range. If you want to put a hole through everything in the county, drive .357 158gr JHP at over 1600fps and still stay within the moderate pressure range.

I am sure a 9 in the sternum through a skivvy shirt will stop the goblin MOST of the time. I am sure a heavier bullet goin faster will stop the goblin wearin a heavy coat, and maby even break his back.

Course with good shot placement and luck, the 25 auto will stop em, but don't bet your life on it.

Sam
 
Is a FACTORY 9mm is equal to FACTORY .357mag....YES. That is why people handload. With a good handgun 125gr .357mag can be sent downrange at 2000+fps, nearly 700fps faster than 9mm. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Beretta, and I will continue to feed it 9mm, BUT it never was and never will be a .357mag...
 
So do I, HarryB, and I don't in any way feel underarmed.

I also carry a .357 quite a bit.

But, that being said, just about the only way you're going to get 2000 fps out of a .357 Mag. is with a really heavy charge of slow burning powder and an 8" barrel. Certainly not concealed carry material unless you're Andre the Giant.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Agreed 100% Mike. I wasn't slighting the 9 at all, just thinking about the potential the .357 has in handloads. Jeez, the fireball alone from some .357 loads would incinerate a perp--especially if he was greasy to begin with!
 
Wolf,

I disagree. To obtain the data to reply to this thread, I went to the Federal web site and attempted to find an "apples to apples" comparison. Here's what I discovered:
>9mm - 124 grain, 1120 FPS, 345 ft lbs energy
>357 - 125 grain, 1450 FPS, 580 ft lbs energy

Therefore, with rounds that are within one grain -- a seven thousandth of a pound -- in mass, the .357 magnum delivers SIXTY-EIGHT PERCENT MORE MUZZLE ENERGY. I respectfully suggest that a energy 68% increment is quite significant.
 
Talk about fireballs... Mike Irwin probably remembers the formula for the Blue Blazer from the Compu$erve forum, probably based on BlueDot. Guaranteed to blind the BG and shooter at high noon.
 
180's from my 4" GP100 = 1160fps; 115's from my Witnesses = 1330+fps.

What's the difference; I like 'em all.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
The caliber ain't the cartridge.

Wolf, you lost the argument in your opening post and the argumentive thread title. 'Can't win a technical debate on wishful thinkin'. Only liberal socialists think that saying it often enough and wishing it hard enough makes it true.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited June 06, 2000).]
 
.357mag, 125gr at 1800fps usin W296 = 32,500cup = 899.52 ft/lbs. 260 percent more energy. Low pressure nasty load.

Sam
 
Your 9mm has 465 Foot pounds and penitrates about 8 to 9 inches . My 357 sig has 583 foot pounds (125 grain gold dot at 1450) and penitrates 16 inches. My load will go through a windshield and still stop a badguy . The problem with many 9mm loads is that the effective stoppers like the 115 corbon are poor against barriers and the ones with acceptable barrier penitration (124+p) are not as good of stoppers. The 9mm is an ok load but to say its the equal of the 357 mag is like saying the 380 is the equal of the 9mm after all they are the same caliber whats a little bit of velocity and bullet weight matter. Hey its time for you to trade that 9mm in for a 380. No don't kid your self a 9mm is an entry level cartridge and best in the hands of the beginers. People that are more trained are better off stepping up the the 357 sig 40, 45 and 10mm.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
All I know is that if I am not bringing my .357 with me, I carry .40S&W or better. :-)
 
Guy,

Yep, I vaguely remember that.

Blue Dot is good for lots of flash. Enough to flash fry a turkey. :)


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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
On a side note:
I was told today that the .357 Sig is a .40 necked down to fit the smaller barrel. True?
I am not an ammo expert but aren't the 9mm,.380, .38, .357 nearly the same flippin' diameter with different weights and powder charges? Somebody educate me.
Regards and thanks

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
355SIG:

Podnuh, you are dead on. It's an insult to compare the 9mm with the .357Magnum. If the 9mm is so great, which is so much space taken up on the web rationalizing it's use? Don't get me wrong it is adequate but it is not my first choice.

As for our Military getting away from the .45ACP,I did'nt like it then and I don't like it now. The heck with NATO. We are the stud ducks and it was the bulk of our money and blood that kept the world from speaking German. We have the largest economy in the world, I'm sure we can keep our forces supplied with .45ACP rounds or .357 Magnum for that matter------sorry to go off on one of my tangents.

The number one complaint I hear from LEO's is that the 9mm will not penetrate a windshield and it overpenetrates sheetrock.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited June 06, 2000).]
 
Apple,

Essentially yes, the .357 Sig is a .40 case necked down to hold a .355 diameter bullet.

And your assessment is correct, that bullet diameter is roughly the same, but velocity and powder charge are different.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
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