I like a tight group as well as the next guy, but is there any way of determining where the 1st shot will hit,clean bore,cold barrel,just out of the case...After all the 1st is the most important is it not?? In order to zero scope should I make 1 shot,clean barrel,let cool and make another?? I'm shooting a .223 NEF,thanks to you guys I'm now addicted to shooting it cause it is fairly accurate.
The 1st shot?
- Thread starter VTR996
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Several ways of dealing with the issue. You can clean the rifle, go to a benchrest, and see where the first shot hits, and then--natcherly--see where the next two or four shots hit.
If numbers two and onward are notably different from number one, and your primary purpose is hunting, I'd zero to the impact point from the cold, clean barrel.
Another way is fire a fouling shot from this cold, clean barrel, and then go off for a cuppa kawfee and then shoot a group. You then know what happens when the barrel is not-really dirty, but cold.
I've always preferred the second method for my hunting rifles. Unless I've hunted in rainy weather, I never clean a hunting rifle during the season. Maybe a dry patch, against dust...
This sort of possible behavior, of a cold-barrel shot versus warm/hot is important. My father built a Springfield sporter, not long after WW II. The first shot from a cold barrel was ALWAYS two inches higher than the next ten shots' fairly tight group. He twiddled, tweaked and rebedded, but it made no nevermind over the next 40 years.
Didn't keep him from collecting large numbers of Bambi, however. Know your rifle.
, Art
If numbers two and onward are notably different from number one, and your primary purpose is hunting, I'd zero to the impact point from the cold, clean barrel.
Another way is fire a fouling shot from this cold, clean barrel, and then go off for a cuppa kawfee and then shoot a group. You then know what happens when the barrel is not-really dirty, but cold.
I've always preferred the second method for my hunting rifles. Unless I've hunted in rainy weather, I never clean a hunting rifle during the season. Maybe a dry patch, against dust...
This sort of possible behavior, of a cold-barrel shot versus warm/hot is important. My father built a Springfield sporter, not long after WW II. The first shot from a cold barrel was ALWAYS two inches higher than the next ten shots' fairly tight group. He twiddled, tweaked and rebedded, but it made no nevermind over the next 40 years.
Didn't keep him from collecting large numbers of Bambi, however. Know your rifle.
, ArtLegionnaire
New member
I agree with Art (seems I do that a lot). First business round is never from a clean barrel. If you must clean, then foul it.
At the Long Range Rifle 1 and 2 courses at Storm Mountain this past summer, I got reamed out by Rod Ryan for cleaning my rifle the first night. Every day and afternoon started with a cold bore shot: one shot at a 100-yard target. We had already zeroed the rifles to 100 yards with warm barrels. We were taught to take fastidious note and record of time of day, elevation, temperature, etc. for each cold bore shot. Rod's point was that the vast majority of shots were going to be from dirty barrels, so he advocated not cleaning them at all; keep the chamber and trigger group clean, yes, but don't mess with the barrel. Those of us who did clean the barrel found that that first shot from a clean barrel (and how clean it really will be is never known) did not land at the same point the average cold bore shot from a dirty barrel did. Rod had a rifle there that was going on 30K rounds without ever cleaning the barrel!
In any event, I learned that with my accurized Remington 700 VSSF zeroed precisely at 100 yards, my cold more shot landed 1/2 MOA low and left. Subsequent shots went directly to point of aim. So for the final exam, I held 1/2" high and right and put the shot on target.
Bottom line: don't plan to make your first shot for score (on paper or on game) from a clean bore. And shoot enough cold bore shots (use a separate target and record ambient conditions for each shot) to build a "history" for your rifle. And it goes without saying that you'll need to do this again for every different load/lot you shoot.
At the Long Range Rifle 1 and 2 courses at Storm Mountain this past summer, I got reamed out by Rod Ryan for cleaning my rifle the first night. Every day and afternoon started with a cold bore shot: one shot at a 100-yard target. We had already zeroed the rifles to 100 yards with warm barrels. We were taught to take fastidious note and record of time of day, elevation, temperature, etc. for each cold bore shot. Rod's point was that the vast majority of shots were going to be from dirty barrels, so he advocated not cleaning them at all; keep the chamber and trigger group clean, yes, but don't mess with the barrel. Those of us who did clean the barrel found that that first shot from a clean barrel (and how clean it really will be is never known) did not land at the same point the average cold bore shot from a dirty barrel did. Rod had a rifle there that was going on 30K rounds without ever cleaning the barrel!
In any event, I learned that with my accurized Remington 700 VSSF zeroed precisely at 100 yards, my cold more shot landed 1/2 MOA low and left. Subsequent shots went directly to point of aim. So for the final exam, I held 1/2" high and right and put the shot on target.
Bottom line: don't plan to make your first shot for score (on paper or on game) from a clean bore. And shoot enough cold bore shots (use a separate target and record ambient conditions for each shot) to build a "history" for your rifle. And it goes without saying that you'll need to do this again for every different load/lot you shoot.