The 1873 Springfield Infantry Rifle!!!!!

M

M1A Owner

New member
All,

Thanks to the gun show in Gulfport, I am the new owner of a 1873 Springfield trapdoor. I look forward to shooting it, but would like any and all advice about these rifles. From the seller (great guy by the way) I know I need to fire 45-70 405 grain for it. What type would you buy for it? Do you have the rifle? Tell me about it.

I look forward to any and all of your advice. Thanks!!!!!
 
Great gun

but...

POST PICS!

I don't think you have to use a 405 gr load but rather a low pressure aka black powder load as your cardinal goal in getting factory ammo. I don't own one but they're neat. I passed up on one to let my friend get it for $500, and it was beautiful and then my "friend" ended up not being such a good friend. For the most part, guns make better friends I've come to learn.
 
how about cast bullets, 405 grn to start, load to about 1100-1200 fps.

Bullets in these guns, when using black powder, need to be soft lead. I shot a Creedmore Match using bullets made from wheel weights, loaded to about 1300. They tumbled at 800, 900 and 1000 yards.

I found out I need to use soft lead and keep the velocity down to about 1100 fps.

Warning, there are many published loads out there using smokeless powder and low pressure levels. That may be true but the faster powder often recommended have a sharp pressure curve. I've found 4198 works, but leaves a lot of empty space in the case. Trailboss works real good in the older low pressure 45-70 loads. It also nearly fills the case making it more accurate.

Have fun, black powder cartridge rifles are a hoot to shoot.
 
IMG_1623.jpg


Here's the 1888 model - given to me by my great uncle who gave me my first horse in 1930 along with his other rifles - truly a GREAT uncle -

Some version of the Trapdoor Springfield was US Army issue until replaced by the 30-40 Krag in the 1890s.

There's a really good book about "THE .45-70 SPRINGFIELD" from North Cape Publications, Inc - go here -

https://www.northcapepubs.com/
 
Cowboy action loads are available in .45/70 using lead bullets and either black or smokeless in mild loads. My trapdoor shoots quite well (though quite high at 100yds) with Ultramax cowboy action loads.

gary
 
Cowboy action loads are available in .45/70 using lead bullets and either black or smokeless in mild loads.
Click to expand...

I would think those loads would be perfect to try out your new gun.

Just a word of caution too. Make sure you are only using mild loaded ammo. There are some hot loaded 45-70 rounds on the market for use in modern 45-70s only. Your Springfield wouldn't likely survive if you tried to shoot a couple of those.
 
If it's indeed a 73 I wouldn't try to shoot anything but black powder out of it. The 84's are fine with smokeless. I used Winchester factory loads out of this original 1884 carbine as well as black.

Trapdoor.jpg
 
I shoot quite a few older black powder guns so have some knowledge on the subject. First understand that only the mildest ammo with "SUITABLE FOR ALL GUNS" written on the box is suitable for the Springfield rifle. The Springfields are beautifully built and works of mechanical art. However there design is weak in modern standards. They are perfectly strong for the time in which they were built. Next most all barrels, including the Springfield, were built of mild steel as jacteted bullets had yet been designed. Thus the continued use of jacketed bullets will rapidly wear the rifling of the barrel. Softer bullets work better, however any lead bullet work fine. PMC and others build cast bullet loads for cowboy shooting and should work well in the Springfield. Ken Waters of HANDLOADER magazine wrote some excellent articles on reloading for the Springfield rifle.
 
Well, I did shoot my friend's 1873 model with the low powered ammo he had - that model was known as the "Custer era" models - since that was what Custer's troops had at the Little Big Horn - they were outgunned since the indians had Henry repeating rifles.

However, it was of significance that the 1873 models were used in a couple of significant battles with indians just south of Sheridan, Wyoming. One was the "hayfield" battle where the indians charged after the US troops fired once and were surprised when the US troops reloaded instantly (previously - muzzlle loaders took longer) - indians lost that one. The other was similar - involving a small unit of soldiers was caught by indians - but the indians lost there also for the same reason - though the Lt commanding lost his life.
 
Gentlemen,

I appreciate everyone's response, but I would like for someone to say, "M1A Owner, the best ammo for your 1873 Springfield Rifle is XXXXXXXXXX." "You can buy it at XXXxXXXxXXxx."

Someone, I need to know exactly what you would use in this rifle. Thanks.
 
Hello. M1A Owner. I would have that rifle checked out by a QUALIFIED gunsmith..who understands these type of rifles. After that, your best bet would be to give the nice folks at Buffalo Arms Company a call. (buffaloarms.com) They are experts on early black powder firearms, have black powder loaded ammo, as well as components, such as ready-to-load soft cast bullets, & die sets. Best of luck with your 73'!
 
M1A Owner, I must be direct.

You have had the answers in a few of the posts above. Here it is again, in summary:

1. Trapdoor rifles are safest ONLY WITH BLACK POWDER LOADS, USING LEAD BULLETS. JACKETED BULLETS SHOULD NOT BE USED IN THIS GUN.

2. If you must buy ammunition for it, buy ONLY lead-bulleted cowboy loads. Do NOT use ANY regular .45-70 loads in it.

3. By far, the safest way to ensure good ammo for your rifle is to load your own. It is NOT too hard, and can be quite enjoyable.

I would first have the bore slugged, or the muzzle measured. Buy some molds that are .001 over the muzzle diameter. I cast my BPCR bullets from wheelweight, but dead soft lead is best. For ease of loading, get some molds with the grease grooves, otherwise you're going to be paper patching and using big grease cookies.

Your fun load would be something like this: a 405 grain bullet, sized to around .458-.460; lubed with SPG; a (starting) load of about 68 grains of 1F or 1 1/2 F Swiss black powder, or 1F Goex, compressed just a hair (I'd start with about .20 inch) under a .030 vegetable fiber wad; then, seat the lubed bullet by hand at the range, firmly against the powder charge. Load and shoot!

BPCR's are fun, as long as you know and understand their limitations.

Best of luck to you! If you want any further assistance, just ask.
 
Tomorrow's my range day and, if my Trapdoor Springfield buddy is there. When I asked him where he got his ammo for the 1876 model he shoots, he just said "On line" - I'll get his details - if he shows - he was also shooting muzzle loader pistols and seems to be pretty well informed about proper ammo for his 45-70 as well as other older guns.

Here's a little better shot showing the Buffington rear sight - which Poyner says first gave the troops windage and elevation adjustments.

IMG_1254_edited-1.jpg


I'll report tomorrow in any event.
 
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Use only blackpowder in this 1873...

recall reading from the American Rifleman that the bores were quite oversized for the.458 bullets, that slugging the barrel and measuring the slug to get the best fit diameter bullet.

Locate a copy of the "Dixie GunWorks" catalog, as they have a list of known
Custer rifles SN's.

may want to have a qualified gunsmith to check it out.

Also try the NMLRA website for links to recognized experts on the trapdoors.

Enjoy.
 
any????

Dang gummit, is there any rifle that OJ doesn't have???????

And if he shows that engraved M95 again..............


Good for you bro, but I'm a bit envious.
 
midwayusa.com offers black powder cowboy loads in the Goex Black Dawge brand, and smokeless cowboy loads in Ultramax or Black Hills.

gary
 
The trapdoor was overbored to help in fowling troubles. It needs soft lead loads. If you shoot off the shelf ammo it will keyhole. One other tip the sight is a 200 yd. zero at it's lowest setting. This is just a couple of things I'v learned over the years. If you'r not versed at shoothing BPCR you should snoop around some of their forams. The folks over there can tell you more about Trapdoors and buffalo guns than you even want to know.
 
#14
OJ
Senior Member


Join Date: December 24, 1998
Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA
Posts: 1,347 Tomorrow's my range day and, if my Trapdoor Springfield buddy is there. When I asked him where he got his ammo for the 1876 model he shoots, he just said "On line" - I'll get his details - if he shows - he was also shooting muzzle loader pistols and seems to be pretty well informed about proper ammo for his 45-70 as well as other older guns.
Click to expand...

Sorry - he was a no-show -

bamaranger Dang gummit, is there any rifle that OJ doesn't have???????

And if he shows that engraved M95 again..............
Click to expand...

You mean this old 30-06?????

AWINCHESTER95-1.jpg


IMG_1494_edited-1.jpg


OK - that was a dirty trick, I admit, but, all my life, I could resist anything but temptation - and now at my age, temptation is harder to find than to resist - :rolleyes:

Hey, man - I've been at this business of collecting ( accumulating, really ) for some 80 years - I really should have something to show for it. Besides, that Winchester 95 was from my wife for our 25th anniversary six years ago - She's the real prize - she also makes certain I have at least one day per week in our schedule for me to go to the range.

She's the real prize - above is in Cripple Creek where she grew up - would you believe - in a pool hall her dad owned - they lived upstairs

I do have one other older 45-70 - a Hepburn Target Rifle #3 with half octagonal barrel - by "E. REMINGTON AND SONS" -

PB170009A.jpg


PB170010A.jpg


It came from the same great uncle who gave me my first horse and the Trapdoor Springfield - all before my sixth birthday. Generous relatives help also.

:D
 
I like that 1895 myself, but talk about an out of place receiver sight? Plain black, against gold and silver with engraving?

I actually like that remington and your 1873 a lot better. Nice hepburn. Its a nice old honest gun. Cooler than anything modern, IMO.

As far as the 1873 ammo question, when in doubt, roll your own.....if thats not an option, shoot cowboy action loads. Its really that easy.
 
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