MinutemanEagle1
Inactive
Hi, all. I'm new here, and just wanted to put in my $.02 on that fence on the Mexican border in the O'Neal Valley where the national Guard troops are working on it. A fellow already started one thread on it (see http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212833 ) , which got closed. I wrote to the administrators to ask if I could make some comments, and they suggested I open a new thread on the same subject. So here 'tis.
I'm the one who took the photo in the old thread. Here's a slightly-smaller version:
This area was the site of the California Minutemen's original patrol area in October 2005. I'm a pilot and flew air patrols with them then, and since. Not as many as I'd like, unfortunately. At that time, the only barrier along the border, was a series of short iron posts about 3-4 feet tall, with a single old railroad rail welded to them. It's the bottom half of what you see in the photo. Now half of them have had extensions welded on, as you can see. The original barrier was a vehicle and horse barrier only, and has been there (I think) for nearly a hundred years. I saw a date of 1909 on one of the rail sections. Obviously, hordes of people can step across it very easily, and bundled of drugs or weapons can be handed or tossed over just as easily. Both things happen a lot in the O'Neal Valley.
This valley is located about 60 miles east of San Diego, CA. More exactly, it's about one mile east of the small gravel airstrip at Jacumba, CA. It's isolated from the town of Jacumba, and the Interstate 8 freeway makes its closest passage to the Mexican border, right at that spot. A VERY handy place for people trying to enter the U.S. illegally.
When I first heard that the NG was building on the fence last weekend, I visited the website where pictures were posted. Somehow I got the impression that what they showed for the first day, was ALL the NG was going to do. It's very thin and paltry, as you can see - totally inadequate to the job of stopping or slowing down the flow of illegals, drugs etc. across that part of the border. The O'Neal Valley was chosen by the Minutemen because it's just about the heaviest illegal-crossing point in all of California. Probably the Guard chose it for the same reason.
It was pretty boneheaded of me to assume that what the guard did on the first day, would be the sum total of their efforts. But I started a thread on the Minuteman Forums (see http://forum.minutemanhq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=291 ) venting my opinion of how miserable the changes were. One of the forum members picked up on it and echoed my sentiments here, on the thread linked above.
The next day, I drove there (it's about 65 miles from where I work), saw what was going on, and talked to the NG troops, who were still working on it of course. They pointed out that they were going to extend the steel wall from the top of the fence to the bottom, and run it all the way across the valley (which is about a mile wide at the border).
Now I feel like a damned fool for going off half-cocked as I did. I brought them some pop and beer on ice the next day, which got a lot of smiles. Worse, some of the people in this forum started thinking that the gummint was insulting all Americans with what I described as an apparently miniscule effort: a hundred yards of splindly posts supporting nothing but a huge open gap. Can't blame them for thinking that, I thought the same thing when I saw the photos. And they seem to feel the Minutemen are lying about a "great, worthwhile effort" when all we see are photos like that one, showing worthless junk.
I just wanted to reply that the Minutemen organization is not lying. It was just one member (moi) who put mouth in gear without engaging brain. In fact, the paltry beginning you see here, will develop pretty quickly into a fairly decent wall. The Minutemen organization has adamantly insisted on even a better design than this one will be: two tall fences, 30-50 feet apart, with a patrol road between them and concertina wire and trenches outside of them. See the site http://www.weneedafence.com for a diagram of what they intend.
The advantage of the fence currently being erected in the O'Neal Valley (a single ten-foot high solid steel barrier running the width of the valley) is that it can be erected quickly and relatively inexpensively, and will provide "pretty good" stopping power to people or drugs. Yes, they can still toss drugs over it, but they can't see who's catching the stuff on the other side - a pretty good deterrent. And they can use cutting torches to get through it, as has been done where this kind of barrier is used in places like Campo, CA. But that takes time, and lets the Border Patrol close in on them while the rest of the border is still impassable.
This design is by no means perfect. We certainly hope they intend to build a real barrier eventually. For a long-term solution, this single ten-foot steel barrier is frankly inadequate. It remains to be seen whether the gummint is getting serious or not, about the border problem. I see this solid fence as a good first step in the right direction, but not a permanent solution.
Please keep in mind that the Minutemen organization, do NOT think this solid barrier is a good thing. The Minutemen intend to keep up their patrols until they are properly relieved - and this ain't it. They are not interested in half-fast solutions, which is all this is. The politicinas may intend it as a mollifying gesture, designed to make the commotion die down. If so, they are badly mistaken. The commotion will die down when the flood of illegal aliens stops, and this design isn't good enough to do that. It's an improvement over the virtually nonexistent "barrier" that was there before... but that's like saying, Yay, we've patched one of the five holes made by the iceberg in the Titanic. The ship will still sink pretty quickly, unless we do a WHOLE lot more.
Well, I wanted to clear the air a little. The Minutemen (including me) feel as most of you do: What is shown in the photos is grossly inadequate. The good news is, it is far from finished, but it will be finished soon. No, I don't know when. When I was there, they had four trucks with generators, supplies, personnel, a large crane, and at least one arc welder on the job. They aren't there for just a one-day job.
BTW, if any of you are in a border state anywhere near where these guys are doing their fencebuilding and patrolling, I STRONGLY urge you to take a few hours off some lunchtime soon, get a couple styrofoam coolers, fill them with pop, beer, ice, and maybe sandwiches etc., and go out to them and give them a picnic. The entire border area is a desert, with hot, dusty winds, no water, no people, lots of cactus of various kinds, rattlesnakes, and is generally not much different from the Iraq that a lot of these guys just came back from. They are not real happy about being sent out yet again to such a Godforsaken place, when they thought they were "going home" at last.
Drop in on them, and show them that what they are doing is appreciated.
Comments? Questions? Insults? Fire when ready, Gridley.....
I'm the one who took the photo in the old thread. Here's a slightly-smaller version:
This area was the site of the California Minutemen's original patrol area in October 2005. I'm a pilot and flew air patrols with them then, and since. Not as many as I'd like, unfortunately. At that time, the only barrier along the border, was a series of short iron posts about 3-4 feet tall, with a single old railroad rail welded to them. It's the bottom half of what you see in the photo. Now half of them have had extensions welded on, as you can see. The original barrier was a vehicle and horse barrier only, and has been there (I think) for nearly a hundred years. I saw a date of 1909 on one of the rail sections. Obviously, hordes of people can step across it very easily, and bundled of drugs or weapons can be handed or tossed over just as easily. Both things happen a lot in the O'Neal Valley.
This valley is located about 60 miles east of San Diego, CA. More exactly, it's about one mile east of the small gravel airstrip at Jacumba, CA. It's isolated from the town of Jacumba, and the Interstate 8 freeway makes its closest passage to the Mexican border, right at that spot. A VERY handy place for people trying to enter the U.S. illegally.
When I first heard that the NG was building on the fence last weekend, I visited the website where pictures were posted. Somehow I got the impression that what they showed for the first day, was ALL the NG was going to do. It's very thin and paltry, as you can see - totally inadequate to the job of stopping or slowing down the flow of illegals, drugs etc. across that part of the border. The O'Neal Valley was chosen by the Minutemen because it's just about the heaviest illegal-crossing point in all of California. Probably the Guard chose it for the same reason.
It was pretty boneheaded of me to assume that what the guard did on the first day, would be the sum total of their efforts. But I started a thread on the Minuteman Forums (see http://forum.minutemanhq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=291 ) venting my opinion of how miserable the changes were. One of the forum members picked up on it and echoed my sentiments here, on the thread linked above.
The next day, I drove there (it's about 65 miles from where I work), saw what was going on, and talked to the NG troops, who were still working on it of course. They pointed out that they were going to extend the steel wall from the top of the fence to the bottom, and run it all the way across the valley (which is about a mile wide at the border).
Now I feel like a damned fool for going off half-cocked as I did. I brought them some pop and beer on ice the next day, which got a lot of smiles. Worse, some of the people in this forum started thinking that the gummint was insulting all Americans with what I described as an apparently miniscule effort: a hundred yards of splindly posts supporting nothing but a huge open gap. Can't blame them for thinking that, I thought the same thing when I saw the photos. And they seem to feel the Minutemen are lying about a "great, worthwhile effort" when all we see are photos like that one, showing worthless junk.
I just wanted to reply that the Minutemen organization is not lying. It was just one member (moi) who put mouth in gear without engaging brain. In fact, the paltry beginning you see here, will develop pretty quickly into a fairly decent wall. The Minutemen organization has adamantly insisted on even a better design than this one will be: two tall fences, 30-50 feet apart, with a patrol road between them and concertina wire and trenches outside of them. See the site http://www.weneedafence.com for a diagram of what they intend.
The advantage of the fence currently being erected in the O'Neal Valley (a single ten-foot high solid steel barrier running the width of the valley) is that it can be erected quickly and relatively inexpensively, and will provide "pretty good" stopping power to people or drugs. Yes, they can still toss drugs over it, but they can't see who's catching the stuff on the other side - a pretty good deterrent. And they can use cutting torches to get through it, as has been done where this kind of barrier is used in places like Campo, CA. But that takes time, and lets the Border Patrol close in on them while the rest of the border is still impassable.
This design is by no means perfect. We certainly hope they intend to build a real barrier eventually. For a long-term solution, this single ten-foot steel barrier is frankly inadequate. It remains to be seen whether the gummint is getting serious or not, about the border problem. I see this solid fence as a good first step in the right direction, but not a permanent solution.
Please keep in mind that the Minutemen organization, do NOT think this solid barrier is a good thing. The Minutemen intend to keep up their patrols until they are properly relieved - and this ain't it. They are not interested in half-fast solutions, which is all this is. The politicinas may intend it as a mollifying gesture, designed to make the commotion die down. If so, they are badly mistaken. The commotion will die down when the flood of illegal aliens stops, and this design isn't good enough to do that. It's an improvement over the virtually nonexistent "barrier" that was there before... but that's like saying, Yay, we've patched one of the five holes made by the iceberg in the Titanic. The ship will still sink pretty quickly, unless we do a WHOLE lot more.
Well, I wanted to clear the air a little. The Minutemen (including me) feel as most of you do: What is shown in the photos is grossly inadequate. The good news is, it is far from finished, but it will be finished soon. No, I don't know when. When I was there, they had four trucks with generators, supplies, personnel, a large crane, and at least one arc welder on the job. They aren't there for just a one-day job.
BTW, if any of you are in a border state anywhere near where these guys are doing their fencebuilding and patrolling, I STRONGLY urge you to take a few hours off some lunchtime soon, get a couple styrofoam coolers, fill them with pop, beer, ice, and maybe sandwiches etc., and go out to them and give them a picnic. The entire border area is a desert, with hot, dusty winds, no water, no people, lots of cactus of various kinds, rattlesnakes, and is generally not much different from the Iraq that a lot of these guys just came back from. They are not real happy about being sent out yet again to such a Godforsaken place, when they thought they were "going home" at last.
Drop in on them, and show them that what they are doing is appreciated.
Comments? Questions? Insults? Fire when ready, Gridley.....
