Texas CHL or Lawful Carry with AR Pistol?

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tateconcepts

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Hey guys,

What's everyone's thoughts on a concealed carry of an AR Pistol (preferably in 300 Blackout) with a Texas CHL and without as lawful carry in an auto or on premises? Also, please keep in mind use of a suppressor with this and/or use of any suppressor with a handgun/pistol and CHL?

I normally don't carry such items but I was curious as are probably many of you. Legalities and thoughts all?

Tate
 
If I understand you, you want to open carry a defined pistol. That is illegal.

As far a concealed carry weapon, I guess if you wear a tent it might work. Why?

As far as a suppressor - why would you need it for CHL - if you use the gun, you really don't have to keep quiet. Worried about ear damage?

I really don't get the core issues here.
 
What's everyone's thoughts on a concealed carry of an AR Pistol (preferably in 300 Blackout) with a Texas CHL...
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Legal as long as it's concealed and as long as you abide by the laws applying to CHL carry.
... and without as lawful carry in an auto...
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Without a CHL, you could carry it on your person (concealed but NOT openly) if you were in a vehicle under your control or walking between your house and your vehicle.
...or on premises?
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On your own property you can carry concealed or openly without a CHL.
Also, please keep in mind use of a suppressor with this and/or use of any suppressor with a handgun/pistol and CHL?
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As long as you have all the proper paperwork, you won't go to jail for it. Silencers are illegal in TX, but it is a defense to prosecution if you have the proper federal NFA paperwork. It is my understanding that if a prosecutor really wants to run you through the wringer, they can take you all the way to court and let you present your paperwork in court. Maybe one of our members with legal credentials can chime in.
 
I have all the paperwork, just curious. I know it seems silly to have a suppressor on a CHL carry but for those who carry concealed legally without a CHL in your auto, I would think that would be perfectly fine if you had paperwork in order. Not to mention any LEO is not going to want to see what you have unless you are doing something you shouldn't. For the first staff member, I did not state open carry anywhere but in my vehicle or premises under my control. This is legal in Texas. I'm not talking about in plain view for the general public as one generally thinks of as 'open carry'.

Having a suppressor on one you carry in your car is not a bad thing I would think as far as for accuracy, control and hearing loss. Nonetheless, I'd rather have my life intact then my hearing and was just tossed in there for thoughts - since 220gr 300 Blackout is required for target practice in the indoor 25yd pistol range (even though I can shoot full auto M193, go figure).

It's just a question I thought I would ask as my CHL instructor was never asked that question if it could be used during qualification, so I was curious to those that may have an answer. I was more curious as to if one could have an AR pistol because I want to know. I'm pretty confident in it's carry within your vehicle or premises and with a suppressor as well, just not on my person. I also don't need a tent if it fits under my jacket. I was simply curious and I don't plan to do it but I thought it would be interesting food for thought. Thanks everyone for your comments.

Tate
 
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I did not state open carry anywhere but in my vehicle or premises under my control. This is legal in Texas.
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Open carry of a pistol in your vehicle is not legal either with or without a CHL. If you are carrying a pistol and you are not at home or on land you own/control then the pistol must be concealed.
I also don't need a tent if it fits under my jacket.
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The standard of concealment is that it must not be visible/detectable by the ordinary observations of a reasonable person and that the carrier must not intentionally display it except when justified by law.

That's a pretty easy standard to meet and, from what I have been able to determine, generally even printing isn't that big of a deal as long as it's clear that the carrier has made a genuine effort to conceal.

I wouldn't like to test the idea that printing as a result of choosing to carry an unusually large/long/bulky pistol might be seen as evidence that the carrier wasn't really making a genuine effort to conceal. In other words, if I were going to carry such a pistol, I would make every effort to insure that it was completely undetectable.
 
I'm sorry to be a sourpuss on this but despite the legalities, I don't see it.

It is an unusual weapon and if your shoot is not perfectly clean (what one is?), you are not going to present a nice picture to jury. While internet folks say that they will always have a good shoot - reality intervenes with the cases we have seen.

Also, let's say there is a rampage shooter and your deploy such a gun. A reasonable person or LEO might just think you need to be in their sights.

Last, a jacket in 110 degrees - that's TX.
 
Thanks John, I know it cannot be visible in my vehicle nor would I want it to be. That's asking for it to be stolen. As far as actually carrying it concealed, I probably wouldn't be but was curious if it was actually 'concealed' - and I didn't intentionally display prints, would it be? I guess this is something I best ask local LE deputies and officers opinions on. I would think that their input be best.

Good point Glenn, I probably wouldn't want to be in anyone's sights...

Thanks for the answers and perspectives everyone.
 
tateconcepts said:
I guess this is something I best ask local LE deputies and officers opinions on. I would think that their input be best.
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Respectfully, it is generally acknowledged that police are possibly the WORST possible source of correct information regarding firearms in general and, especially, handguns. Most of them don't know much about gun laws, but they are happy to very authoritatively tell you what they THINK the law says ... and they are usually wrong.

Your questions have been answered already, and it seems you knew the answers before you asked the questions. Laws are laws, and words are words. Words have meaning. If the firearm you have in mind is truly an AR pistol -- it's handgun, and the same laws that apply to a Keltec 380 apply to an AR pistol.
 
Walking the black and white letter of the law will not protect you from a prosecutor wishing to use your choice of weapons to establish malicious intent in front of a jury. Arguing that your "ar pistol" is not a " modified ar15 assault weapon with high capacity magazines" might go south on you. But I'm no lawyer and hey it's your money.
 
There is never a sure-fire protection against an over-eager cop or an over-zealous prosecutor putting you through the wringer. The question, at least as I understood it, wasn't "What can a prosecutor do to me?" but "What is the law?"

Your point is well taken, however. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's automatically a good idea. Especially in Texas, where we have those yahoos walking into diners with AR-15s and AKs slung over their shoulders, "Because we can."
 
Gotta agree with AB on this, especially the bit about asking a cop. Ask your lawyer. Don't have one? Now is the time to find one BEFORE you have a legal issue.

With that said, while the laws may apply just fine, the AR pistol has to be one of the worst concealing choices you could make and would be amongst the most difficult to carry and access while still being in compliance with the law.
 
Crankgrinder Walking the black and white letter of the law will not protect you from a prosecutor wishing to use your choice of weapons to establish malicious intent in front of a jury.
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What the heck would a prosecutor be arguing was "malicious intent"? Are you saying that your choice of firearm defines guilt? I would love to see a citation from Texas where that was ever done.


Arguing that your "ar pistol" is not a " modified ar15 assault weapon with high capacity magazines" might go south on you. But I'm no lawyer and hey it's your money.
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True, everyone other than the police should only carry .22's (but not with hollowpoints because they are more malicious)
 
Art Eatman Suppressors have long been legal in Texas....
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Not exactly.
Texas Penal Code 46.05 clearly classifies silencers as prohibited weapons:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/pdf/PE.46.pdf

Sec.46.05.PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a)person commits an
offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses,
manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer............


(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor ’s possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the
National Firearms Act, as amended.
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So...........a law enforcement officer COULD lawfully arrest you for possessing that suppressor, but the DA could not prosecute you.

I believe TSRA is pushing to have this silly section removed in the next session.
 
As a fellow CHL'er...seriously? How are you going to conceal that?

Why?

Remember you can leave it in your car but it cannot be visible to the public (if its a pistol).
 
Downtown:True, everyone other than the police should only carry .22's (but not with hollowpoints because they are more malicious)
__________________ I carry a .45 myself , and a 38 or a .357 and now a .40 depending on the weather. Your sarcasm is much appreciated perhaps, but not by me, and did I not say it's the op's money (and his legal expense/risk) ill say it again.
 
zincwarrior said:
...Why?...
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I agree that an AR pistol seems to be a pretty clumsy choice for self defense concealed carry. It would be interesting to see how well someone could manage one is a self defense oriented class -- like 250 at Gunsite or Massad Ayoob's MAG-40. I think one would have some problems.
 
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I imagine getting in and out of a car in a concealed manner would be interesting.

I think the consensus is that while an interesting conjecture, it's not particularly useful in the civilian carry world.
 
If you take the TX CHL range qualification test with it, you'll have to bring your 9mm, .450 Bushmaster, or .458 SOCOM upper, as DPS regulations require you to use .32 caliber or larger. :rolleyes:

(I've always thought that this was a particularly silly restriction, although I understand the logic behind it.)
 
If you take the TX CHL range qualification test with it, you'll have to bring your 9mm, .450 Bushmaster, or .458 SOCOM upper, as DPS regulations require you to use .32 caliber or larger
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9mm would not be too bad, but the others would be terrible. Fortunately for Texans and unlike some other states, you can qualify with a different pistol than what you choose to carry.
 
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