Test bullets

5

5.56

New member
Folks,

I am doing the testing on a new bullet design for personal protection.

For updates check into the northcoastshooters.com and go to our forums.

These were shot into water today, they are 110gr 9MM and 168GR 45ACP


Nick
nick@northcoastshooters.com
 

Attachments

  • ME Bullet Test #10001.jpg
    ME Bullet Test #10001.jpg
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Interesting, but it looks to have been photo-shopped.

While I'm not an expert at spotting it, the quarter is in 100% perfect focus, but the portions of the bullets that are in the same plane as the quarter are out of focus. A fairly easy artifact of fakery to spot. Having spotted what looks like an amateurish photo fake, I have doubts of the veracity of the post.


Could be wrong, and apologies if I am, but ... It looks like a fake to me.
 
I know it sounds far out, but "Maximum Expansion" could be reduced to "MEX" so the antis would cry that you want to sell evil bullets to kill immigrants. Remember that "Black Talon" had to be taken off the market, while Golden Saber bullets, which do the same thing, were never even discussed.

Jim
 
"Black Talon" had to be taken off the market, while Golden Saber bullets, which do the same thing, were never even discussed.
Click to expand...

I've never tested Golden Saber personally, but some of the original Black Talons I have tested look a lot different after expansion than any of the pictures I have seen of Remington's ammo.

As for the ammo in the OP, the photo does look odd. Would the OP like to explain how he created that image? That might clear up the motion blur or the extremely shallow depth of field.
 
Interesting.

A bit light for caliber, but I guess that's to be expected with the newfangled all-copper/gilding metal projectiles, particularly with those whopping great hollowpoint cavities.

What kind of penetration are you getting?
 
The bullets where put on a scanner and scanned. So if ya think it is a photo shop in your opinion, I'd be willing to have someone neutral to hold a couple of thousand dollars from each one of us. If you are right you win, if not, you loose. As an old country boy here, it is called putting your money where ya mouth is.

To answer the questions in regards what the test was right now with those bullets in the pictures a 50 gallon barrel of water was used to test initial expansion. You will notice the 45's did not nopen up as well as the 9mm did.

We are going to make the bullets a bit more fragile to open up at slower speeds as well. The loads I used where WELL into the top end and then some. The biggest problem is due to copper being less in mass the bullets are longer, as in the 9mm about .110 longer than a standard 125gr jhp. The performance is incredible out of a longer barrel. The 2 weapons used in the test: sig p 226 9mm and a kimber pro carry .45acp.

So to seat them deep enough to have clearence to run through a mag you have to use a dense powder. As an exanple, bullseye is not acceptable due to the amount of volume a grain of bullseye takes up compared to a couple of select powders that I have been experimenting with.

I have submitted changes that need to be done to make the bullet perform at slower speeds which will be done. As we speak, the 9mm bullets are opening up in water to 1 3/16". They are not quite ready to move to ballistic gelitan yet. The penetration runs about 8" at high speed, lower speeds will get too much penetration at the moment with little or no expansion and which we are working on as we speak.

I am hoping that all of the testing will be completed within the next 60 days or so. It takes alot of time to free a machine up to make a run of these. I am not the manufacturer, just the testor. When they perform as intended the should penetrate 2 to 2 1/2 inches prior to opening up. Then should end up with a total depth of about 8".

Right now the calibers will be .32, .380, 9mm, 38/357, .40 S&W, .44 and 45ACP.

Nick
 
I for one applaud your ingenuity and hard work. You are simply trying to make a better mouse trap so to speak. Good for you. America needs more entrepreneurs.
 
5.56 said:
The bullets were put on a scanner and scanned.
Click to expand...

The photo makes more sense now. The quarter is in the same plane as what we perceive to be the top of the bullets.

attachment.php


Nice expansion, but I'd like to see more penetration.

Can you shrink the image a little and save it again? I just linked to your attachment.
 
Sport45 Wrote:

Nice expansion, but I'd like to see more penetration.
Click to expand...

Eight inches of penetration and you want more? My chest, front to back in 12 1/2 inches. How much more penetration do you want?


OP, I look forward to seeing the ballistic gel test. Very interesting.

I like the Maximum Expansion name (MEx), but I can see where someone is going to give you grief over the name. When I first opened the picture, I thought they looked like Chinese throwing stars. (Then I thought they looked like crosses, and if they were made out of silver....)

Please keep us posted on your progress.
 
So if ya think it is a photo shop in your opinion, I'd be willing to have someone neutral to hold a couple of thousand dollars from each one of us.
Click to expand...

Sir, as a potential bullet manufacturer, if you can't reply to criticism in a more neutral way, things are going to be rough for you. I'm already 'turned off' to the idea.
 
Eight inches of penetration and you want more? My chest, front to back in 12 1/2 inches. How much more penetration do you want?
Click to expand...

The reported 8 inches was in water. Don't most respected self defense rounds do much better? Brassfetcher tested .38 spcl JHP at 15" or more in gelatin.
 
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Well, that explains why the picture looks funny.

I would like to request a few more pictures of un-expanded bullets. If you can show us some regular bullets next to these, it would be interesting. To see how much longer these really are. I am interested in the 9mm and 45ACP/Super applications.

I assume you are going to do a full FBI protocol and are looking to pass their requirements. If you do, it will be one more bullet in a large, but saturated market.

I would like to make a plug for something different. There are three bullets that are not on the market that should be.

1. Pre-fragmented design which expands all it's energy in the target. I have some "quick shock" 45Super ammo which does this and appears to be GREAT. It broke my platform as the shock wave expanded the gel beyond expectation and the bullet fragmented.

2. We need an ultra-heavy .308 that will fragment/expand at subsonic velocities. This would be a specialty load/bullet for those of us using suppressors. Shorter would be better, but we need something heavy to achieve the pen.

3. This is the same thing as #1, but specifically a .451, 260gr that will expand/fragment at subsonic velocities.

I see the potential for gov. contracts for #2 & #3.
 
Welllllll LOL

We have a subsonic .30 cal in trials now. We do have a CF round as well. Which is controlled fracture. The problem with it is this. It is made of brass and under ATF rules is deemed an armor piercing pistol round and can only be sold to Police and Military.


To make a short address to "Turned off" To make suggestions to or about the product is one thing that is welcome. To accuse of false or fake pictures or information is not true is not considered acceptable to myself or others. Sorry you feel that way. Not many folks who the words "Honor, Honesty and Intergity are not just words in a dictionary" would appreciate being implied that they are lying.

Like today, I am packing guns and ammo for a trip to NY to Fort Drum For a shooting competition that I am hosting there. It starts Friday and runs through Sunday. I am the head cook and bottle washer for the North Coast Shooters Association, LTD. We are the only shooting organization in the U.S. that has access to multiple military facilities around the country. The reason? Honor, Honesty and Integrity are not just words in a dictionary.

If you wish to contact me for additional info, here it is.


nick@northcoastshooters.com
330-674-3244
 
Sport45

Do you want penetration or maximum expansion? Show me a handgun RD that will open up to 3-4 times its original size and penetrate in excess of 8".

For what it is worth. I shot a 9mm loaded slower and a 45ACP loaded slower, the M.E. rds and they both shot through the top of a 5 gallon bucket and lid filled with water and out the bottom without opening up at all. However, that is not what we want, we want to deliver the maximum energy into the target. Show me a 9mm that will open up to 1 3/16" and penetrate deeper. We can make them not open up and get the penetration, then we are just another bullet, nothing special. It depende on the intent of what you want it to do and the performance you are seeking.

Now as for expending all energy into the target.........with the M.E. bullet you are doing just that!

Now for you inquiring minds! <grin>

Water is far harder than ballistic gel. So the first step is to get rds to open up at mid range velocity in water. Water is FAR less expensive and time consuming than making the gel. I do not have to cook water and refridge it for 36 hrs prior to using it compared to the gelitan. That is the standard for a gel test.


Nick
 
The best expanding 45 bullet I've used is an old Speer 200 gr HP. Speer went from JHP RN shape with small hole, to JHP with large , deep hole and jacket scored in 12 places, then to JHP with large hole but no scoring on the jacket. The last two were the "tea cup" bullets.With the scored jacket version a hit in the spine/shoulder area of a 'chuck would not exit ! How do your bullets work on chucks ?
 
Mete,

It depends on which projectile, we will be having 5.56/.223 rds available that explode and they are brass or copper as well, depending on the application needed as to what you get. No chemicals, just proper bullet design is all. We are attempting to take it to another level in bullet development.

I was asked about sub-sonic .30 cal. Now this is a hoot....We were testing a bit and loaded one a bit to warm for that particular test. When it hit the paper target at a distance of 100 yards, the imprint hole in the paper was 3.5 inches in diameter. It had opened up in the air prior to hitting the paper. Like I said, it all depends on exactly what you want it to do! <grin>


Nick
 
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