Tensile Strength

3

.38Catt

New member
Okay, so I am walking the dog after dark. We varied from our normal route and I needed to cross a somewhat busy four lane road. There is a break in traffic and we sort of jog across the street. Its dark and I do not see the raised median. BOOM! face plant! bruised knees, cuts on palms, bruised ribs, etc. Get up bleeding and in pain, but I'm a big boy and kept on with the walk.

I had a Bersa .380 in my front pocket, pat the pocket--still there. As I walk, increasing pain in right quad. Get home, clean up and a beautiful bruise is developing where I feel on the gun. I look at the gun some deep scratches on the slide. At 300 lbs, when I fall, I FALL. So where am I going with this?

It got me thinking, how many non-metal guns might have cracked on such impact. I am a Ruger fan and I am considering the LC9 vs. the SR series. The biggest turn off is the "brittle" feel of of the glass filled nylon.

Does any body have any experience droping such a gun on a hard surface?
I know, I've seen tests were they are run over by trucks (on soft mud), frozen in ice, yadda, yadda... But how about a simple 5 foot drop onto hard tile or concrete? Or a 300 pound fatty falling on one in the street? What say you?

Regards,

.38Catt
 
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I'm not a metalurgist, plasticurgist, or any other type of urgist... mayb e coffee urgist, but that's besides the point. Anyway, I used to have a huge burr under my saddle about polymer framed pistols- but I have done enough reading and observing to come to the conclusion that a poly pistol dropped will have a chance of coming out much better than a steel, and especially better than an aluminum framed pistol.

I figure the poly will bend a bit here, compress a bit there, return to it's set shape and absorb the impact where aluminum might bend and stay that way.

Somebody will come along shortly and either esplain it much better or tell me my assumptions are goobered up and esplain it even mucher better.

I still don't think I own a poly pistol. Had one or two- but they just don't seem to live with me for very long.
 
I don't know about plastic. But, a Ruger will bend the base pin when a 245lb guy uses his Blackhawk as a landing pad after being launched from horseback. Of course the gun would still fire all the chambers, but the hip had to be pinned back together.
 
Here is a good video of what happens when you take torture test to the extreme in nearly every fashion imaginable with a Glock. This guy dropped it from a roof onto concrete, drove over it on concrete, drug it behind the car down the road, fired more than 15k rounds without cleaning, shot it with a .22 and tossed it from a plane at an altitude of 500 feet. Gun still functioned and grouped well.

This video will probably make Glock fans cringe and smile. You've been warned, there is some serious glock abuse happening here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6i3dtytmBA

The material they make polymer framed handguns out of is more flexible than it is brittle. I don't know how the LC9 would do under the same test but it is pretty difficult to break a Glock.
 
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I'm still basically a "metal guy" but will admit the scandium ( aluminum alloy ) framed revolvers suffer when dropped... when I got my 1st CCW, I had bought an Air Weight J frame in 32 H&R Magnum NOS & since the local gun store didn't have a holster I liked, I had to settle for an Uncle Mikes nylon holster ( with no retention strap ) getting into or out of my stock Dodge 3/4 ton 4 X 4 ( higher than a car, but not jacked up ) the gun fell out of the holster & skittered across the parking lot / driveway twice, before I was able to get a better holster... I have several deep abrasions in the aluminum parts of the gun, almost enough to make a guy cry on a brand new discontinued revolver...

so when I turned 50, I took up rollerblading... at the time I was into carrying antique snubbie revolvers... I bought a Taurus TCP in 380 both because of sweat issues, as well as I didn't want to fall & break an antique revolver, & the TCP works great, & was cheap, if I should fall & break it... I'm really surprised how tough & durable these little plastic guns are...

I still think of them as "soulless" tools, & still much prefer a metal gun... but if I'm working hard, or working out, sweating a lot, it's nice to have a cheap plastic tool to strap on, instead of one of my "good" ones
 
The one torture test you cannot do on polymers is the age test. I have seen different plastics get brittle with age and exposure to chemicals. There are steel 1911's that are 102 years old and are still functional. We will have to wait close to 100 years before we know how polymer guns will hold up.
 
plastic

I doubt yiu would have anything to worry about with a poly gun. The composite used in most firearms is a far cry from the plastic we are used to in toys etc. It is softer in that it can scratch or gouge easier. Think of the old "tough stuff" plastic that was big in toys years ago. It was virtually indestructable. Polymer may flex under less force then steel but will return to shape even after it is forced far past the point metal would be unable to. It is also less effected by work hardening then metals so it can be bent and retain more of its strength.
As an example (and I know it it is not a gun but illustrates the strength of plastics) years ago a friend of mine and I had a sprint spectrum phone we found somewhere and we decided to destroy it while waiting for a pizza. We threw if against the concrete as hard as we could. We threw it in the air and let it slam down. We even slammed it in the lid of a huge steel dumpster as hard as we could with little effect. Jumped on it, kicked it, yelled at at it... nothing. It finally took setting it on a train track infront of a train to destroy it.
 
We will have to wait close to 100 years before we know how polymer guns will hold up.
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Not really.

First of all, nylon (one of the more common polymers used in guns) has been around for about 80 years now. Remington introduced a firearm with nylon components over 50 years ago. So, even if one wants to rely purely on actual aging, we would only need to wait another 20-50 years to find out how 100 year old nylon holds up.

Fortunately, not even that long of a wait is necessary to predict the effects of age on plastics. The aging properties of plastics are well understood and that means that they can be (and have been) accurately simulated. For example, least one gun company has run accelerated aging tests and determined that the effects of 100 years of sunlight exposure on their polymer components had a negligible effect on the mechanical properties of the parts tested.
 
" We will have to wait close to 100 years before we know how polymer guns will hold up."

It's not going to make a lick of difference to you.

You, and most of the rest of us, will be long dead.
 
Mike Irwin
It's not going to make a lick of difference to you.

You, and most of the rest of us, will be long dead.
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Speak for yourself Irwin. My Glock makes me imortal!!! BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!

On another note: More kool-aide?
 
First of all, nylon (one of the more common polymers used in guns) has been around for about 80 years now. Remington introduced a firearm with nylon components over 50 years ago. So, even if one wants to rely purely on actual aging, we would only need to wait another 20-50 years to find out how 100 year old nylon holds up.
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Having worked with nylon, it is wonderfully strong stuff. However, once having a car having a with a distributor gear that was made out of Nylon, I had an actual experience where the little Nylon gear broke into several pieces, apparently having become brittle (I am sure that the company that engineered that care had tested that part for resilience at some point), I suspect from age and contact with oil...good thing Polymer guns do not come in contact with oil. Just as the Cherry Growers Association financed "research" that concludes that Cherries have significant medicinal properties, the same caveats should be considered when plastic manufactures claim that they have subjected their product to the effects of age and found them immune.

Therefore, all destructive tests on newly manufactured plastics (polymer if you want to avoid the negative connotation of the word, "Plastic"), are not necessarily reverent.

In regard to possible plastic gun deterioration over 100 years, it is important to me inasmuch as I would be very disappointed in not being able to pass a gun down though the generations. I do not want to deal with "throw-away" guns.

Nevertheless, plastic guns have their place...as issue guns for police where it does not have a need to survive the owner. But, I have no interest in owning one for personal use.

I am not anti-plastic...my speed-loaders are made of plastic and if years from now they get brittle and break, it will not be a big deal. But, on the other hand, if a frame on one of my guns broke, it would be a very big deal.
 
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I think your biggest concern is what holster to protect your firearm (weapon) as you walk your dog at night.

Tensile strength is for life-long incidents (tripping on the curb at night, fumble dropping and regular conceal carry, etc.). that is why I carry an LC9 regularly in a #3 Black Hawk pocket holster. The fiber glass polymer frame is strong and still like new after two years of pocket carry. The slide has some tale-tell pitting from sweat until I started using Barricade. Still my preference is for my LC9 carry with Hornidy Critical Defense rounds.
 
However, once having a car having a with a distributor gear that was made out of Nylon, I had an actual experience where the little Nylon gear broke into several pieces, apparently having become brittle (I am sure that the company that engineered that care had tested that part for resilience at some point)...
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As with any manufactured item, how long it lasts is dependent on many things--the most critical being how much the manufacturer is willing to invest in its durability. For example, I had a car some years ago with a plastic dashboard that stood up to 14 years of TX sun with nary a day in the garage and still looked new--a friend of mine had a car from a different maker and his dash cracked after only a year or two of similar treatment. Not coincidentally, my car's maker has built a reputation for selling cars that last while the maker of my friend's car has much the opposite reputation.
...when plastic manufactures claim that they have subjected their product to the effects of age and found them immune.
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Nobody is claiming that plastics are immune to the effects of age as far as I can tell. What the test found was that the effects from sunlight exposure had a negligible effect on the mechanical properties of the tested parts. For all I know, the parts could have looked really bad after the test because that information wasn't released. The point wasn't that plastics are immune to age, just that the effects of age and various environmental conditions on plastics can be determined and have been determined to a very large extent. Therefore it's incorrect to assert that we'll have to wait a century to find out how plastics will age for that reason and for the more obvious reason that plastics have already been around for the better part of a century.

As far as the manufacturers making false claims, it wouldn't be hard for someone to duplicate the test and expose the lies. I doubt any reputable manufacturer would be willing to put their reputation on the line when a lie could be so easily exposed.
But, on the other hand, if a frame on one of my guns broke, it would be a very big deal.
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The funny thing about this statement is that you say it as if you believe you're the only one who feels this way. No one is happy about buying a multi-hundred dollar item to stake their life on with the idea that it will break in a few years from the normal effects of aging. Manufacturers understand this concept very well, and the ones who have built a reputation for making firearms that experts are willing to stake their lives on are not going to make disposable guns if they want to keep that reputation.
 
Polymers are more ... a lot more susceptible to uv then metals true. But how many handguns*are exposed to direct sunlight for the amount of time within its useable life to make a difference? An auto dash may break down or crack after a few years but that is after several years of being in the sun every day all day under the magnified heat of a windshield.
Maybe in extreme cold they could be more brittle, enough where if really abused they would fail? I just dont think as far as normal usage is concerned there is any need for concern. If you are operating in arctic temps you will probably have issues with any weapon. If you are throwing your gun off buildings or driving over it with Rhinos maybe you should rethink your tactics instead of yiur choice of firearm. Not meant to be snarky just sarcastic.
 
Polymers are more ... a lot more susceptible to uv then metals true.
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Methods for making polymers more UV resistant are well-known. The reason most polymer gun frames are black is not because the polymer is actually that color in its native form, but due to additives which largely eliminate the negative effects of UV exposure on the polymer.
 
Damn, I never thought about color. Makes sense though. You learn something new ... at least once a month.

Do you think the other colors are less uv resistant or is it negligible?
 
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