Temperature Extremes & Plastic Guns

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BarryLee

New member
Forgive me I have what may be a weird question and I may simply be over thinking it.

Many handguns are made of multiple materials such as steel, aluminum, plastic, titanium, etc. So, if different materials expand and contract at different rates based on changes in the temperature could this cause a gun to malfunction? I realize minor variations would not be an issue, but what about a gun left in a car in the Deep South on an August day or a Minnesota winter’s night. Is it possible that these extremes could result in a problem? Also, would an all steel gun be more reliable in these situations since the frame, slide, barrel would be made of much more similar materials?
 
While possbile, I do not think it is worth worrying about. In order to see effects from thermal expansion, one would need tighter tolerances, larger length scales or larger temperature differentials or all than are typically involved with handguns. Keep in mind that no gun is made of brass to match the casing anyway.

I am a Mechanical Engineer.
 
I would think extreme cold would have more effect on the lubricants in\on the gun than the metal its self.
I wonder how much extreme conditions are tested into the design of non military weapons. I wouldn't want to be a cop carrying a gun that wouldn't work in sub-zero temps.
 
My experience with polymer guns tells me that there wouldn't really be anything to worry about. The slide assembly is all metal, just like an all steel gun would be and the slide rails are metal. The parts sit in polymer, sure, but if it expands or contracts, the metal rails go with it. They are also usually very loose tolerance, as already mentioned. If you can see a gap through it at room temperature, what's 50+ degrees in either direction really going to do?
 
The lube on the gun will freeze before you ever see a problem from the fitting of parts. Many folks who hunt the arctic remove all lubes from their guns for that reason, and they apparently work fine that way.

As far as extreme heat, I live in Arizona. I've left guns in my vehicle on numerous occasions and have never had a problem. If you can touch them, they'll work.

It's a non-issue.

Daryl
 
There was a problem with early S&W model 66s stopping when they were hot.

It's doubtful that a gunfight would last that long.


" The fastest draw is when the gun is already in the hand" - Dave W. Arnold
 
I have heard, not seen, that early Kahrs had some deformation in grip shape after a day in a car in the TX max summer temp.

Didn't see it - story worth what you paid for it.

Glenn
 
In this months' "American Riflemen," there was an article about the Korean war and the way various G.I. issue weapons froze completely up not allowing them to work.
 
My unscientific and purely anecdotal observations from having carried and employed handguns and other small arms at extreme temperatures:

From a low of -72 F (windchill event I lived through at the base of Mt Washington, NH)...

To -30s F (ambient temps during winter live fires in MI, MN, WI, and AK)...

To all-summer-long locked-in-trunk temps in AL, FL, & GA...

To all-day-long ambient 110 - 132 F temps across summertime Iraq...

In my experience, you have zero practical concerns with high heat, regardless of weapon or combination of materials the weapon is constructed from. The high temperatures required to induce serious malfunctions would also kill you.

Conversely, at around -40 F (and lower), you may start to see breakages of metal parts. This when first firing a cold weapon and further aggravated by rapid fire. Metal parts begin to get a little brittle at these temperatures. I've seen failure with both aluminum alloy and steel parts. Components which are subjected to shock or recoil energies can fracture or snap in half (e.g., firing pins, mortar baseplates, bolts, machinegun mechanisms, or malfunctioning HE fuzes & warheads). I've seen semi-auto handguns fire sluggishly for the first few shots at extremely cold temperatures, but this was usually a function of lubricant congealing at extremely low temps.

A more common (but slower) cold-induced failure is that of weapons malfunctioning from rust. This can be caused by bringing cold weapons from ambient below freezing temps into a warm environment. As they warm up, the firearms sweat (moisture in the warmer air condenses on the still frozen metal parts of the firearm) and later rust. Weapons continuously left in the passenger compartments or trunks of freezing vehicles are vulnerable when exposed to a cycle of hot (heater on) and cold (parked and turned off) . The solution is to wait until the weapon reaches something approximating room temp, dissassemble and wipe off all moisture, then apply the rust preventative lubricant of your choice.

I don't see a polymer and steel / alloy pistol being anymore or less reliable than an all steel version due to temperature. Look at it this way. We expect automobiles (plastic, steel, & alloys) to operate at extreme temps and they do (coolant issues aside). IMHO, any temperature sustainable by a human is also OK for a handgun, regardless of its material composition.

Hope this helps...
 
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Barry,

John Farnam has used a Glock 17 for something like 20 years. Almost 270,000 rounds out of that one gun.

He has also used it in Alaska as part of an experiment in cold temps. The ONLY guns that worked in sub zero reliably were, 1911s, S&W 28, and.... Glock 17!

And places like Austria, where in the mountians it gets REAL cold, well the Austrian military use.... Glocks! And in the desert, where it gets REAL hot, Glocks are THE favorite pistol to.

And the Alaskan Highway Patrol use.... Glocks (model 22.)

So, I would not worry about the cold, at least with Glocks!

Deaf
 
Non-issue is the answer ... In Texas, where it's regularly over 100 degrees during the summer, my Taurus 85 lives happily in my car as it bakes in the sun ... it has never failed to fire ... I agree that the lube you use would be an issue long before the materials that make up the weapon itself would cause a problem ...
 
Chindo beat us all to the point. Open the hood of your car, or more likely, truck, and see all the different materials they use. There's plastic, steel, more plastic, rubber, even more plastic, probably some aluminum or cast iron, and maybe, even more plastic. What you won't see, however, is gunpowder, although there has to be some gasoline in there somewhere.

I almost said that no one that makes guns makes cars but even that isn't true. It could be an issue with the ammunition and it usually says somewhere to store ammunition in a cool, dry place. When I was reloading, I usued to keep my powder supply out in the garage next to where I kept the gasoline. Never had a problem.

The cold, however, is a serious issue, just like it is for the car. Notice how hard a car is to start when it's cold if you leave it outside?
 
Weather/temp extremes, skin contact, sidearms...

There are some great member posts so far but I'd add that the use of polymer type handguns now & in the near future should not be a major issue.
I know the AK State Troopers have used a Glock 21 .45acp with custom Robar(reduced) grips. If a polymer frame 21 model can hold up year round in the rough conditions of Alaska, it should work most anywhere else.
Glock, HK and S&W MP series duty pistols are in use in New Mexico, Texas and AZ too. The heat, sun and high temps do not have major problems either, ;).
I have, in fact, heard that bare hands can be a serious problem with knives, handgun grips in extreme cold weather. I'd heard it's best to use wood grips or rubber for these reasons. I don't live in a extreme environment so it's highly unlikely that I'd need to address the issue.

Clyde
 
The lube used and any moisture accumulation will be a factor in cold environments. The material used in the gun will not.
 
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