Tell me why .44 Special in a Charter Bulldog is better than .45 in a Charter Pitbull

T

TruthTellers

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I've always liked small frame, big bore revolvers, but I've never cared for the .44 Special. To me, .44 Special has no more power or better performance than the more common .45 ACP or .45 Colt, two cartridges I can easily get at any gun store or big box store.

Yeah, I shop online for factory ammo now and can get .44 Special, but there's no guarantee years from now online ammo sales will be as... free to be exercised, be it a national or state law.

It's nice that the Charter Bulldog has been such a small and light revolver for decades, but now that Charter makes the Pitbull in .45 ACP, I see no reason why I'd pick the .44 over a .45
 
There's not a nickel worth's of difference between good defensive loads in either the .44 Special and .45 Colt/ACP. Either with a 240 ~ 250 gr. SWC at around 900 ~ 950 f.p.s. Even a similar range of JHP bullets.

Bob Wright
 
TruthTellers said:
I've always liked small frame, big bore revolvers, but I've never cared for the .44 Special. To me, .44 Special has no more power or better performance than the more common .45 ACP or .45 Colt, two cartridges I can easily get at any gun store or big box store.

Yeah, I shop online for factory ammo now and can get .44 Special, but there's no guarantee years from now online ammo sales will be as... free to be exercised, be it a national or state law.

It's nice that the Charter Bulldog has been such a small and light revolver for decades, but now that Charter makes the Pitbull in .45 ACP, I see no reason why I'd pick the .44 over a .45
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It's a question I have as well. When I was at Charter Arms the other week I fired the Bulldog and really liked it but 44 special but it is a costly round nowadays.
I am actually going back to Charter Arms on Monday and if I remember I will ask the question. As the pit bull doesn't require moon clips and they make it in a Nitrate finish now it is on my radar.
 
Bob Wright said:
There's not a nickel worth's of difference between good defensive loads in either the .44 Special and .45 Colt/ACP. Either with a 240 ~ 250 gr. SWC at around 900 ~ 950 f.p.s. Even a similar range of JHP bullets.

Bob Wright
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So then other than the way the Pitbull functions in extracting cases, there's no real reason to choose the Bulldog over the Pitbull?

I like full meplat wadcutters as defense loads from short barrels, but that's only available in the .44 (although Buffalo Bore makes a .45 Auto Rim wadcutter round, but Idk if the Charter can run .45 AR.)

I also like that Charter makes the Bulldog in the classic 3 inch and 4.2 inch models, so don't get me wrong thinking I don't like the Bulldog, I just don't care for the .44 Special.
 
So then other than the way the Pitbull functions in extracting cases, there's no real reason to choose the Bulldog over the Pitbull?
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I owned a Charter Bulldog many years ago when they were fairly new, around 1975 or 1976. A .44 Special, I loaded .44 Russian brass with a 225 gr. half-jacketed hollow point bullet, the old Speer HJ bullets. Since that time I've not had any experience with Charter revolvers.

But, again, there is not that much difference between the .44 Special and .45 Colt/ACP with similar loadings in similar revolvers.

My guess is, if the Pit Bull takes moon clips, or half moon clips, it will also digest the .45 Auto Rim cartridges.

Bob Wright
 
The Pitbull does not utilize any form of clips, the .45 ACP is loaded directly into the cylinder and the extraction is done by a spring loaded tab inside the chamber that inserts itself into the groove of the rimless case.
 
As you can see from my screen name I'm a big 44 fan and I've had a Bulldog since 1975. But if I were buying new today, I'd pick the Pitbull 45 ACP just for the ammo availability and economy.
 
If I was to get one of those Charter Arms revolvers, my preferences would be as follows (in order)
1) Bulldog Classic (3" blued)
2) Any other Bulldog with a 2.5" barrel
3) .40S&W Pitbull
4) .45ACP Pitbull

I'd strongly prefer the .44spl over the .40 or .45ACP options. Part of it is the traditionalist in me, a revolver deserves a revolver caliber. From a practical perspective, revolver calibers have more options in bullet design since functioning in an auto doesn't have to be factored into the design. Good luck finding a LSWCHP in a .45ACP.

The shorter the barrel the more likely in general that your hollow point will have difficulties with expansion. I like a 3" barrel on a revolver as a sweet point where you get more velocity (and thus more power regardless of expansion), more reliable expansion (due to the greater velocity) and a longer sight radius, while still maintaining easy concealability. Neither the .45ACP nor the .40S&W are available with a 3" barrel.

Historically, .45ACP has had difficulty with expansion in short barrels (in autos that has been sub-4" barrels). With modern advancements in JHP design, it is possible that isn't the issue it used to be. However, in auto calibers in a short barrel I prefer .40S&W and 9mm since they have not historically had the problem to the same degree, and they have seen the same JHP advancements. In revolver calibers and a short barrel, there are short barrel JHP loadings now marketed, but I also like the old school solution- LSWCHP. They have a soft lead, un-jacketed HP. If that fails to expand, the full caliber, sharp shoulder of the SWC cuts a full caliber wound unlike the rounded front of a JHP (especially an auto JHP) which acts like a rounded FMJ when it doesn't expand.
 
^ I don't disagree with you about bullet designs being more effective in a revolver or the 3 inch barrel the Classic Bulldog comes with, I'd rather have the Pitbull in a 3 inch barrel, but that's not happening ever probably.

I don't think there will be an issue with JHP expansion in the Pitbull as the Speer short barrel loads are very effective even from 3 to 3.3 inch barrel pistol that include the chamber and effectively leaves even less barrel length then the 2.5 inch Pitbull's barrel.

Yeah, it's a very specific load, but when it comes to JHP ammo, you only need to find one that works and stick with it. Also, I wouldn't doubt it if Federal HST will work in the Pitbull.

Even if nothing works, it's not like hardball won't do the job either.
 
Well ballistically speaking there's no advantage either way and I reload both so availability is no issue either my reasons for getting the 44 were that the Charger Bulldog 44 is a bit of an iconic classic gun and I got a smoking deal when Bud's had the Crimson Trace equipped version cheap enough that when I sold the grips and bought Pachmyers I have less than $300 in it.
 
In the 70's and 80's a lot of 44 shooters used the Lee mold for a full wadcutter type bullet in 44s for defense. They quit making it at one time, maybe still don't, and I sold mine on eBay for a tidy sum. I like the LSWC option in a 3 inch Bulldog.

I also looked up the Pitbull, not being up to speed on current Charter guns, and I hope they are available at far less than the MSRP. I can think of a lot better uses for $465.00. One reason I've always kept my Bulldog is I could probably only get about $200 for it and I could never replace it with something similar for that kind of money.
 
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That's easy...Revolvers prefer a rimmed cartridge.
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^^^^ This

The rimmed cartridges function much better in a revolver regardless of the extraction method.....But I understand the expense of the 44 special can be an issue. Reloading solves that issue.....years ago I decided that if I was going to do any real amount of shooting that rolling my own was the only way to go......I was right
 
Bob Wright said:
I owned a Charter Bulldog many years ago when they were fairly new, around 1975 or 1976. A .44 Special, I loaded .44 Russian brass with a 225 gr. half-jacketed hollow point bullet, the old Speer HJ bullets. Since that time I've not had any experience with Charter revolvers.



But, again, there is not that much difference between the .44 Special and .45 Colt/ACP with similar loadings in similar revolvers.



My guess is, if the Pit Bull takes moon clips, or half moon clips, it will also digest the .45 Auto Rim cartridges.



Bob Wright
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The pit bull actually has a special design that holds rimless cartridges without the need for moon clips or half clips.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
now that Charter makes the Pitbull in .45 ACP, I see no reason why I'd pick the .44 over a .45
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The Pitbull does not utilize any form of clips, the .45 ACP is loaded directly into the cylinder and the extraction is done by a spring loaded tab inside the chamber that inserts itself into the groove of the rimless case.
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And that is exactly why to choose the 44Spcl Bulldog over the 45acp Pitbull!
Why complicate the simplicity of a revolver with extra springy thingys that not only might, but eventally will malfunction, or break?
 
The 44 Special is based on the 44 Russian and I doubt there is much difference in velocity between the smokeless 44 Special and the blackpowder 44 Russian. So you are basically stuck with a round that is going at 19th century speeds. With factory loadings, the round is not a velocity champ.

I am disappointed I did not chronograph any factory ammunition in my Charter Arms, but this should have been a “standard” pressure load, and the bullet did not get above 700 fps in a three inch barrel.


Charter Arms Bulldog 3' Barrel


250 LSWC 6.6 gr Unique thrown, little dandy Rotor 13. Federal Primers
T ≈ 75 ° F 15-Aug-92

Ave Vel = 698
Std Dev = 20
ES = 46
Low = 670
High = 716
N = 5

Velocity wise, that 44 round is traveling just at the speeds I can push a 158 lead in a 38 Snubbie. A 38 snubbie is not exactly a velocity champ either, but at least a 44 Special bullet is a little more than 80 grains heavier.

Taurus M85 Stainless 2" Barrel

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, Mixed Brass WSP
17-Apr-17 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel = 699.9
Std Dev = 13.96
ES = 44.5
High = 724.9
Low = 680.4
N = 12

Because these pocket pistols, whether they are 38 Specials or 44 Specials, pocket pistols are very light framed with thin cylinders. The Bulldog's fire low low pressure rounds. That’s the trade off, light weight, concealable, low pressure rounds.

I suspect a 45 ACP would be similarly slow. Gunwriters have built Grand Canyons between a .308 diameter bullet and a .284 bullet, and Oceans between .308 and 277 diameter rounds, but they are shills. I am of the opinion there would be very little to no particular difference in tissue damage between a 240 lead .429 bullet traveling under 700 fps or a 230 LRN (or 230 FMJ) .452 bullet traveling under 700 fps.

Just pick whatever round tickles your fancy. You could use 45 Auto Rim in a revolver, I have done that in my M1917 revolvers, I don’t like loading or unloading half moon clips. If reloading speed is a factor, I don’t think there is a faster way to load a revolver than with full moon clips.
 
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