Tell Me About The S&W Shield in 40 S&W

claydoctor

New member
I have the Shield in both 9mm and the newer 4 inch in 45. I'm trying to decide between rounding out my Shield collection with the 40, probably the PC version or trading my Sig P365 on the 365XL. I need to rent and shoot the 365XL to see if it irritates my finger the way the 365 does. I really lean more to the Shield as it fits my hand so well but of course, for a carry piece, the Sig has more capacity. I guess I'm asking for shooting impressions from those that have the 40 Shield. I have no problem with the recoil of the 45 Shield, so I assume the 40 will be slightly less. I have also read about case ruptures with some pistols shooting the 40. Has this been an issue with the 40 Shield? Appreciate any input.
 
The S&W M&P40 Shield was one of many weapons I was considering as a new carry gun. Based on what I've read, the M&P40 Shield makes for a fine .40cal single stack semiauto pistol, of which there aren't very many options.
Ultimately, I ended up moving away from the Shield out of a desire to carry a double stack semiautomatic pistol, but if I were interested in getting a single stack, then the Shield would be my choice.

As far as instances of .40cal case blowouts goes, Smith & Wesson ought to be the least of your worries because they invented the cartridge, they know how to build guns around said cartridge, and it is to my understanding that all of their polymer-framed, striker-fired semiautomatic pistols made over the past 26 years were designed with the .40 S&W in mind. In fact, most of their .40cal pistols have full chamber support, so any case blowouts are most likely the result of out-of-spec barrel, reloaded brass which was likely weakened by being fired from pistols with less chamber support, or an aftermarket barrel with less chamber support. Seriously, even my El Cheapo 2004 SIGMA SW40VE has a fully supported chamber.
 
A friend of mine had the Shield in .40 S&W. I found it unpleasant to shoot. It was a lot like the PPS I owned in .40 S&W. The recoil wasn't out of this world or anything but "snappy" is the right way to describe it. I haven't shot the .45 version but in general, .45 and .40 have a different sort of recoil. The .40 tends to feel more abrupt. That's fine in larger firearms but I really didn't like it in either of these.

Put it this way. Either of those guns is great in 9mm. They are fun and fairly easy to shoot well for how small and light they are. That makes them both gems given how well they conceal. The rapid snap of .40 S&W changes that for me. To match my speed and accuracy with the 9mm version would take a lot more practice. That practice would be less fun.

The PC version might be a different story. It's ported. Porting can do a lot to reduce muzzle rise. That could be just what the doctor ordered for a .40 S&W in this size. Coincidentally, they just released a ported version of the P365.
 
I have the M&P Shield 40 1.0.

Initially I could not shoot it so well because the trigger was horrible. No failures, just a gritty trigger and a slide that was almost impossible to rack.

I put an Apex Duty/Carry trigger kit in it and WOW, night to day. It became very accurate. I also had the trigger pull reduced to approximately 4 lbs.

Still no failures after around 3,000 to 3500 rounds.

I liked it so much I purchased not one, but two Shield 45s...one with a laser and one a PC.

I am an old man and I do not seem to have any problem with the 40 having recoil problems. I still remember the first time I shot it. I did not notice the recoil as much different from when I shoot it with a 9mm barrel from TR Enabling.
 
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Personally, I don't mind recoil because I accept it as an inherent trait of larger caliber cartridges in general. The .40 S&W is bigger and heavier than 9mm yet traveling at similar velocity, ergo obviously it's going to have more pronounced recoil, but it also has more energy. Besides, smaller guns tend to be uncomfortable to shoot, regardless of what cartridge they're chambered in. Nobody buys a compact pistol for fun at the range, they buy it because it's small and easy to conceal.

Granted that more comfortable guns tend to get short more often, but honestly if you find yourself skimping on training because it's difficult, unpleasant, or even a bit painful, then I can only conclude that you never work out either, and therefore with all due respect, the problem isn't the gun, it's you. The solution to such a problem shouldn't be to carry a weaker gun, the solution should be to man up, accept that training isn't supposed to be easy, and that the reward for training isn't the amount of fun you have training, but the results of said training. (i.e. being able to shoot a more powerful firearm just as well as weaker ones because you didn't just give up immediately when you learned that it was neither easy nor fun to train with.)
 
Tell Me About The S&W Shield in 40 S&W

Personally, I don't mind recoil because I accept it as an inherent trait of larger caliber cartridges in general. The .40 S&W is bigger and heavier than 9mm yet traveling at similar velocity, ergo obviously it's going to have more pronounced recoil, but it also has more energy. Besides, smaller guns tend to be uncomfortable to shoot, regardless of what cartridge they're chambered in. Nobody buys a compact pistol for fun at the range, they buy it because it's small and easy to conceal.

Granted that more comfortable guns tend to get short more often, but honestly if you find yourself skimping on training because it's difficult, unpleasant, or even a bit painful, then I can only conclude that you never work out either, and therefore with all due respect, the problem isn't the gun, it's you. The solution to such a problem shouldn't be to carry a weaker gun, the solution should be to man up, accept that training isn't supposed to be easy, and that the reward for training isn't the amount of fun you have training, but the results of said training. (i.e. being able to shoot a more powerful firearm just as well as weaker ones because you didn't just give up immediately when you learned that it was neither easy nor fun to train with.)


Some smaller pistols are more comfortable to shoot than others. Sometimes it’s a function of the caliber, sometimes just the design. I’ve had a number of smaller pistols that while not my first choice for hundreds of rounds in a session, I wouldn’t describe as uncomfortable.

A lot of people out there that choose to carry a 9mm don’t, IMO, have a problem with working out or being willing to endure some discomfort while training. It’s not always a matter of not being able to handle a caliber (though that’s a common remark in this argument). Someone may well look at that cartridge, decide the pluses are better elsewhere and go that route. As for being able to shoot a more powerful firearm as well as a weaker one, in my experience if someone does get better at shooting more powerful cartridges then they also get better at shooter less powerful cartridges. I know there are people that claim they can shoot say 40SW with no difference between it and 9mm. In my experience this isn’t exactly true. It may well be a small difference, but if part of the point is that cartridge B is more powerful than cartridge A then there should be some physical manifestation when shooting (accuracy, time, etc). If not, then maybe the difference isn’t as much as believed.

I can understand why someone would choose 40SW, many do. I think in that choice is the acceptance of more recoil. That doesn’t mean not recognizing that other pistols might be softer shooting or that others may simply choose differently (and not always out of physical weakness). There are trade offs to everything. No one, 9mm shooters included, should fool themselves otherwise.


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I am pretty sure the 40 is going by the wayside. Too much recoil and not appreciably more effective in penetration than modern 9mm ammo. Add to that the 9MM will carry more ammo, I see no need for a Shield 40.
Now, on to your Sig P365. If you like that gun, I understand the desire to have the XL version. I too did not appreciate the trigger shape on my two P365''s so I put in a Sig flat trigger (standard on the XL version) and the gun now fits me much better.

Comparing the Shield and the P365XL, I think you will find the Sig to hold more ammo and still be able to conceal much more easily.

If I were you, I would try borrowing or renting the XL sig with its flat trigger and if it works for you, the Sig Trigger can be had for just over $50 on sale and may be an easy solution to your issue.

365_flat.jpg
 
Personally, I don't mind recoil because I accept it as an inherent trait of larger caliber cartridges in general. The .40 S&W is bigger and heavier than 9mm yet traveling at similar velocity, ergo obviously it's going to have more pronounced recoil, but it also has more energy. Besides, smaller guns tend to be uncomfortable to shoot, regardless of what cartridge they're chambered in. Nobody buys a compact pistol for fun at the range, they buy it because it's small and easy to conceal.

Granted that more comfortable guns tend to get short more often, but honestly if you find yourself skimping on training because it's difficult, unpleasant, or even a bit painful, then I can only conclude that you never work out either, and therefore with all due respect, the problem isn't the gun, it's you. The solution to such a problem shouldn't be to carry a weaker gun, the solution should be to man up, accept that training isn't supposed to be easy, and that the reward for training isn't the amount of fun you have training, but the results of said training. (i.e. being able to shoot a more powerful firearm just as well as weaker ones because you didn't just give up immediately when you learned that it was neither easy nor fun to train with.)
I see the same kind of "man up" advice with snub-nosed alloy revolvers in .357 magnum. When people say things like that, I tend to ask why they haven't manned up to .44 magnum in their carry guns.

In my case, I like .40 S&W in full-sized guns like the USP or PX4 storm. I like 9mm in guns like the Shield and PPS. Enjoying practice is a big part of that. As I said, getting equally as good with those little guns in .40 S&W is more work for me and the work is less fun. So I've chosen to carry the small guns in 9mm. Does that make me a namby-pamby girly-man or someone who wants to enjoy a hobby and use their time effectively?

As far as real difference goes, .40 S&W certainly packs more punch. It will do a little more damage to flesh and bone. However, that doesn't mean 9mm is wimpy or insufficient. It's not like going down to .32 acp or rimfire. The difference in effectiveness is relatively small. If that's the cost for a larger difference in enjoyment or ease of use, I don't see a problem.

As far as working out, I suppose I could get really strong by hauling logs shirtless through the mud in a cold rain. However, I'd rather lift weights in the basement while listening to tunes.
 
@TunnelRat

I'm not talking about those sorts of folks though, I'm taking about the sort who feels the need to constantly denigrate larger caliber cartridges and basically preemptively defend their decision to carry a smaller caliber cartridge.

In other words, the sort of unhelpful folks who only post in threads regarding .40 S&W, .45 ACP, or any other cartridge they don't carry to put said cartridges down.
In most cases, these folks are the sort who in their desperate attempt to denigrate more powerful cartridges, inadvertently sound lazy because they often have to point out that it's less pleasant to shoot, and therefore obviously you'll train less because apparently everyone chooses to walk the path of least resistance when it comes to Self-Defense.

Obviously, if one should find that they're more proficient with 9mm than .40, then that's what they ought to carry.
Heck, I spent years carrying .380 ACP because that's what worked best for me at the time. My beef is with the folks who insist that everyone must carry whatever they do, especially when their so-called reasons for doing so amount to little more than an attempt to justify their own decision to themselves because folks who carry more powerful cartridges emasculate them or something.

I am pretty sure the 40 is going by the wayside. Too much recoil and not appreciably more effective in penetration than modern 9mm ammo. Add to that the 9MM will carry more ammo, I see no need for a Shield 40.

Well, evidently the topic creator sees a need for the Shield 40, otherwise he wouldn't have asked for it. Furthermore, lots of folks still carry .40s, ammo manufacturers are still producing it, firearms manufactures are still chambering guns for it, and it seems highly unlikely that Smith & Wesson would ever cease production of firearms in .40 S&W just because at the present time it's less popular. In other words, .40 will fall by the wayside no more than any other cartridge which declined in popularity.

As far as I'm concerned, a round or two less in the magazine is more than made up for by the increased energy output per round, deeper penetration, and larger expansion. Are said differences marginal? Perhaps, but if you can shoot a .40 without it substantially impacting your ability to shoot, then why not?
 
Five years ago at that time ATK came into our agency range with a lot of new ammo and several hundred pounds of ballistic gel. Their purpose was to demonstrate penetration and expansion of their lines of LE ammo.
I will sum the results in as few words as possible.
1. Ammo and calibers in their lines all penetrated about the same distance in the gel.
2. They were pushing the advantages, both capacity and great cost savings of agencies using 9mm as opposed to the 40 (which was created because the SS and FBI couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm.)

Since those tests I have seen dozens of agencies go back to 9mm handguns affording cities major savings in ammo costs.
The same can be said for the 5.7 round which has been replaced with carbines in 5.56 using 223 varmint rounds.

I have no complaint with the 40 S&W, I am just repeating what ATK was demonstrating. I can tell you at the end of the day come cleanup time, in the nine years I have helped sweep and sort the brass, there is one tenth the 40 there was just a few rears ago.
 
I just watched a video of the Shield 9 vs. 40 and they both preferred the .40

https://youtu.be/shI-u7qqAP4

Personally I'm a huge .40 fan, there's really no reason to pick 9mm if the capacity difference is 1 or 2rds vs. 40 S&W. Despite people stroking their ego to make themselves feel good about carrying a smaller caliber, the 9mm is definitely at a ballistic disadvantage compared to the .40 and a slight trade off in capacity is well worth it.
 
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I’ll be the mamby-pamby girly man here and say while I haven’t shot a Shield in any caliber, I’ve shot plenty of pistols in both 9 and 40 and while the recoil difference was minimal with done, it was hugely noticeable on others. I’m already battling arthritis in my fingers, so the pounding by a 40 vs a 9 is the difference between me practicing or not. If it ever comes down to that unfortunate moment where I would have to defend myself, I’ll be way happier to have had the 9 I practiced with than the 40 that stroked my ego.
 
Five years ago at that time ATK came into our agency range with a lot of new ammo and several hundred pounds of ballistic gel. Their purpose was to demonstrate penetration and expansion of their lines of LE ammo.
I will sum the results in as few words as possible.
1. Ammo and calibers in their lines all penetrated about the same distance in the gel.
2. They were pushing the advantages, both capacity and great cost savings of agencies using 9mm as opposed to the 40 (which was created because the SS and FBI couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm.)

Since those tests I have seen dozens of agencies go back to 9mm handguns affording cities major savings in ammo costs.
The same can be said for the 5.7 round which has been replaced with carbines in 5.56 using 223 varmint rounds.

I have no complaint with the 40 S&W, I am just repeating what ATK was demonstrating. I can tell you at the end of the day come cleanup time, in the nine years I have helped sweep and sort the brass, there is one tenth the 40 there was just a few rears ago.

Ballistics Gel is good as a tissue simulent, but it can only tell you so much about ballistics. As of the Miami-Dade Shootout of 1986, penetration has become the primary concern of Law Enforcement, and Ballistics Gel is used primarily for the purpose of determining whether or not a specific bullet/load will achieve adequate penetration as per FBI standards.
While penetration is most certainly a decisive vital factor in the stopping power of a round, there are other factors in play as well.

Modern Self-Defense bullets, loads, and ammunition in general are designed specifically to meet FBI Specifications, hence why all modern duty cartridges all perform more or less the same in Ballistics Gel Testing.

Where heavier/larger caliber bullets shine isn't in tissue, but bone. Larger, heavier bullets tend to fracture or even shatter bones as they pass through them to due to their greater mass, momentum, and energy transfer, whereas small, lighter bullets are more likely to either glance off of bones or otherwise punch a clean hole straight through them at higher velocities. Obviously, a shattered bone is more likely to result in an incapacitation than a bone with a mere hole punched in it which remains otherwise structurally sound.
This is why many hunters prefer to hunt with larger, heavier bullets than smaller, lighter bullets which are otherwise perfectly capable of inflicting lethal wounds.

Is this vital for Self-Defense? No, but it is an advantage which is oftentimes overlooked because evidently Law Enforcement doesn't consider it to be of vital importance, ergo it does not factor into their Ballistics Testing.

Furthermore, .40 S&W and .45 ACP deliver more energy on target, and while said energy doesn't generate any additional permanent damage beyond the otherwise negligible differences in diameter, the difference in energy transfer is still easily visible in Ballistics Gel by the temporary stretch cavity as well as the physical reaction of the Gel Block on impact.
Folks will say that such differences are meaningless, but I beg to differ on the grounds that being inanimate objects, Gel Blocks don't feel pain. In other words, while the temporary stretch cavity doesn't beget an additional wounding capabilities, it is most likely that such a reaction within the body of a living creature is far more appreciable in terms of physical discomfort. In addition, those Gel Blocks often weigh anywhere from 50-100lbs, ergo if the average man weighs anywhere from 150-200lbs, and a 50-100lb block of Ballistics Gel is noticeably driven backwards, then obviously a similar effect will occur on a human being, albeit to a lesser extent. Which brings me to my next point, and here's where things are going to get all the more controversial...

Knockdown Power. Oh yes, that legendary yet allegedly scientifically impossible ability often times attributed to the .45 ACP cartridge. According to the accounts of numerous US Army Veterans during the time of it's widespread service, the 1911 chambered in .45 ACP reportedly had a reputation for knocking down enemy combatants who were struck by it. Most folks write this off a pure fiction based on unreliable sources, often citing Sir Issac Newton's 3rd Law of Motion as proof that is impossible because if the bullet could impart enough force to knock one man down, then it would also knock the shooter down as well. Ignoring the fact that such is a gross oversimplification of the 3rd Law of Motion which also ignores several scientific variables such as weight, balance, etc in favor of cutting to the chase, once again, the human element is being completely overlooked. Man is bound by the laws of physics, but man also possesses instinct and free will, ergo while a .45 ACP may be incapable of imparting enough raw physical force to knock a man clean off of his feet, that doesn't mean that it is incapable of imparting enough physical force as well as pain to knock a man off balance causing him to trip/fall to the ground.

Last but not least comes the phenomenon colloquially referred to a Psychological Stop, which is characterized by an assailant simply giving up, calling off their attack, surrendering, or retreating for any number of reasons such as fear, pain, or simply deciding that it is worth the risk of continuing.
Obviously, Psychological Stops shouldn't be relied upon in a fight because they're a variable rather than a constant, but they remain a factor regardless.
How does this apply to .40 S&W, you might be wondering? Simple, .40 S&W is known to produce a louder report as well as a brighter flash which is obviously more unnerving than a quiter report and a lesser flash. In simplest terms, which would you find more intimidating, a pop/crack and a tiny flash or a bang/boom and a fireball? Ergo the probably of triggering a Psychological Stop is inherently higher among more powerful cartridges.

Taking into consideration all of the aforementioned factors, I feel that it is inaccurate to say that all modern duty cartridges are equal. Sure, based purely on the unilateral specifications of modern Ballistics Gel Testing they may be more or less equal, but there are plenty of potential advantages to carrying a more powerful cartridge which aren't acknowledged nor covered by Law Enforcement.

In closing, the 9mm Luger is indeed perfectly adequate for Self-Defense, make no mistake of that. However, attempting to push it as equal or especially objectively superior to cartridges which are greater in mass, heavier in weight, larger in diameter, and higher in energy is inaccurate, to put it politely.
 
I just watched a video of the Shield 9 vs. 40 and they both preferred the .40

https://youtu.be/shI-u7qqAP4

Personally I'm a huge .40 fan, there's really no reason to pick 9mm if the capacity difference is 1 or 2rds vs. 40 S&W. Despite people stroking their ego to make themselves feel good about carrying a smaller caliber, the 9mm is definitely at a ballistic disadvantage compared to the .40 and a slight trade off in capacity is well worth it.
I've seen her on GB guns before. I hadn't realized she had her own channel. Thanks for sharing!

The video itself was interesting. Now I'm curious about differences between the regular and 2.0 Shield. Also, notice that they were using FMJ for 9mm and a re-manufactured .40 S&W. I really would have liked to see them use more types of ammo, especially defensive loads.
 
@TunnelRat



I'm not talking about those sorts of folks though, I'm taking about the sort who feels the need to constantly denigrate larger caliber cartridges and basically preemptively defend their decision to carry a smaller caliber cartridge.



In other words, the sort of unhelpful folks who only post in threads regarding .40 S&W, .45 ACP, or any other cartridge they don't carry to put said cartridges down.

In most cases, these folks are the sort who in their desperate attempt to denigrate more powerful cartridges, inadvertently sound lazy because they often have to point out that it's less pleasant to shoot, and therefore obviously you'll train less because apparently everyone chooses to walk the path of least resistance when it comes to Self-Defense.



Obviously, if one should find that they're more proficient with 9mm than .40, then that's what they ought to carry.

Heck, I spent years carrying .380 ACP because that's what worked best for me at the time. My beef is with the folks who insist that everyone must carry whatever they do, especially when their so-called reasons for doing so amount to little more than an attempt to justify their own decision to themselves because folks who carry more powerful cartridges emasculate them or something.







Well, evidently the topic creator sees a need for the Shield 40, otherwise he wouldn't have asked for it. Furthermore, lots of folks still carry .40s, ammo manufacturers are still producing it, firearms manufactures are still chambering guns for it, and it seems highly unlikely that Smith & Wesson would ever cease production of firearms in .40 S&W just because at the present time it's less popular. In other words, .40 will fall by the wayside no more than any other cartridge which declined in popularity.



As far as I'm concerned, a round or two less in the magazine is more than made up for by the increased energy output per round, deeper penetration, and larger expansion. Are said differences marginal? Perhaps, but if you can shoot a .40 without it substantially impacting your ability to shoot, then why not?



It seems to me that in an effort to head off at the pass people that would denigrate larger calibers, you yourself are doing the exact same thing to smaller calibers as well as the people that use them. Just my view.


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Since I would expect at least some increase in recoil from the 40, I wonder if the recoil comparison on her session was mislabeled, as it seems to show more recoil from the 9mm. The video comparison from his session, to me shows the 40 recoiling more as expected.
 
Since I would expect at least some increase in recoil from the 40, I wonder if the recoil comparison on her session was mislabeled, as it seems to show more recoil from the 9mm. The video comparison from his session, to me shows the 40 recoiling more as expected.

Felt recoil can be funny that way. Sometimes folks perceive recoil impulses as less or more than they actually are, hence why some folks insist that .40 feels no different than 9mm while others insist that it has more recoil than a .45.

For example, I see folks all the time talking about how "snappy" the Ruger LC9s is, yet I myself consider it to be among the most pleasant handguns I've ever shot. How could that be? Because admittedly most of the handguns I own have heavy recoil, ergo by comparison the LC9s is pleasant to me.
 
I tried out a rental Shield 2.0 in .40 S&W. It wasn’t unmanageable or painful to shoot. Shot 50 rounds. Accuracy was good. Didn’t do any fast shooting though, so I can’t say how well I could get back on target compared to a 9mm.
 
Felt recoil can be funny that way. Sometimes folks perceive recoil impulses as less or more than they actually are, hence why some folks insist that .40 feels no different than 9mm while others insist that it has more recoil than a .45.

For example, I see folks all the time talking about how "snappy" the Ruger LC9s is, yet I myself consider it to be among the most pleasant handguns I've ever shot. How could that be? Because admittedly most of the handguns I own have heavy recoil, ergo by comparison the LC9s is pleasant to me.
Not talking about FELT recoil. I was talking about the recoil shown in the close up videos. They look mislabeled to me.
 
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