Techies pleas help - DSL or Cable modem?

Futo Inu

New member
Sorry not gun-related except that it relates to how fast I can download pages from TFL, but I've been getting direct mail solicitations of late for both "Roadrunner" cable connection, offered by my local cable TV company, and something now called "Jato DSL", which claims it can connect my to in my area. This DSL outfit says that it's competititor (which I assume means the cable company - doesn't say exactly), is very fast upstream, but a "real slug" downstream (or maybe that's vice versa. At any rate, what the hell is all this crap, and just tell me bottom line, what's the best value (fastest connection for lowest price), and advantages/disadvantages of each? For a cable connection, don't you have to have a LAN card with a coaxial port to use as the cable modem? If so, then that's a problem for me, because I already use LAN cards for the LAN itself. Or can you put in two LAN cards? I assume not - not enough IRQs, are there? I'm so
confused.gif
Thanks in advance.
 
The answer is - "it depends".

Cable systems tend to be run by cable guys who don't understand how to be an ISP. The result is that they don't segment their network (too many users on a shared segment) and they tend to underprovision backend bandwidth to the Internet. If these issues are handled appropriately, the upside potential is higher speeds.

xDSL is generally theoretically slower, but these above issues tend to be handled better, which can result in a better end product. I have a friend close-by who just booted out a MediaOne cable modem and got Mindspring DSL because of the problems above, and he's very happy with his DSL (1.5mbps down, 256kbps up).

The cable installations I've seen have an external "cable modem" with a coax in and a 10baseT out. I've seen DSL with both an external "DSL modem" and with it all being on a PCI card.

I've got DSL with an external modem. This goes to an NT box with two network cards running routing software. It's not really a firewall, more of a sacrificial lamb on the Internet. It's as locked down as you can reasonably do an NT box. One NIC connects to the DSL modem, and the other to the house network (my desktop, son's desktop, playground box, work laptop, etc.).

For more info see: http://www.dslreports.com http://www.cablemodeminfo.com/ http://www.cablemodemhelp.com/ http://www.timhiggins.com/ppd/sharing.htm

If you spend any time on the Internet at all, once you get a high speed connection, you'll never live anywhere that doesn't offer it.



[This message has been edited by JimR (edited April 21, 2000).]
 
I favor DSL. Cable modem is in theory faster.

Cable modem is I think a 10 mbit trunk line that you share with x amount of people. If you are the only one the line, then it is blazing fast. But if your neighbor is running a porn site, or downloading a a lot of stuff, (like software or porn or both) then it sucks to be you.

DSL = Dedicated Subscriber Line. Which means that you have your own line until the central. And that what counts the speed to the central office.

Once you get there, the speed of the connection is out of your hands. These lines are typically over subscribed by about 10%-15%, but I have heard them over subscribed by up to 80%. Now that I've confused you more. I would try to explain, but I don't know how to type it.


Equipment wise, you don't need any new LAN cards for either. Both use the standard 10 base T rj-45 connection. But you will need either a Cable modem or a DSL modem depending of which one you go with.


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It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
http://yellowman.virtualave.net/
 
I work for a company in Texas which provides cable tv, phone and cable internet over coaxial lines. The cable modem service we offer is very fast. We do it differently then is described in other posts, you get 512K down and 64K up,(that is the basic service it goes up from there) and everyone in the node(about 100-150 homes) will get that speed to our headend which is 1 "hop" from the internet trunk, we can't control the speed of the actual "internet" and no one else can either. Time Warner's Roadrunner service is also in town, but they work it where if a large number of people in your node are on-line, the speed decreases greatly, sometimes down to 56k speeds. If you can find someone who works it like my company, go with cable. If it's someone like Time Warner's Roadrunner, go with DSL. That's just my expert opinion.

[This message has been edited by mjsarge (edited April 21, 2000).]
 
You might want to check with your local computer nerds to see if "wireless internet" might be available in your area.

For 200 bucks worth of equipment and setup, and 60 bucks a month, I get download speeds of around 4.5 meg per second, and .5 meg upload per second.

Just an idea,,,

Jay
Arizona
 
Digital Subscriber Line is okay but if you setup a personal firewall a cable modem is usually better and faster. I use a cable connection at home and regularly get +4 meg/s downloads unless the system is busy. Then it drops to about 1 meg/sec which is still faster than most home DSL connections.
 
It depends mostly on the ultimate speed available and division of that speed among nodes on the segment.

I've got the same type of internal network setup that JimR does, but mine runs outside on a wireless cable router. The router runs up to a microwave dish on the roof transmitting and receiveing my ISP & CATV signal on a 2.3-3.8 GHz signal. On top of the CATV signal it allows up to 1.5 Mbps of data, but I could get up to 7.6 Mbps if I had a dish dedicated to just ISP.

My current account is only allocated up to 768 Kbps, but it is both ways. The nice part is the signal and bandwidth are not spit between others on a segment. It's just my server, 2 hops from their trunk. The only draw back I have found is time to their DNS server is horrible (40-120ms is avg. I've seen it take 250ms+). I already keep a basic pool setup, but since SOME sites keep hopping servers, it's more than I want to deal with every week!
wink.gif


--- JeepBear Out ---
http://www.freespeech.org/rkba
Carpe Diem. Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum.
 
Just keep in mind that with DSL or a cable modem, you are connected to the internet all the time. This presents some unique problems. Your system is vulnerable to the new class of viruses that have been created,and you are also vulnerable to hacking. Two things to keep in mind as you make your choice.

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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!
Defend the Constitution from the foreign threat!!!!
 
If you have the choice, go with whichever is the cheaper and most reliable in your area. I use a cable modem because it offers faster download speeds. Since I rely on up to date service packs and patches for work, download speed is my primary concern. Both cable and (x)DSL are limited technologies that have little room for future growth. DSL only works on copper, and only within 1400ft of the provider. Most telcos are replacing copper w/fiber, so the future of DSL equipment is pretty limited. Cable systems are getting overcrowded, and there is little available bandwidth to go around. My current headend (neighborhood) bandwidth is 30MB/sec, shared. In times of low usage, between 2AM and 5AM EDT, I can download 12.5MB of data in a little over a min. During peak times. 12PM to 11PM, the download times are 15 to 20 times longer. Bottom line is, whicever offers a lower initial cost: Installation, equipment, etc., and a lower monthly charge, is the way to go.

Also, don't confuse bandwidth with speed. Cable modems offer an effective delivery of 10MB/sec bandwidth to each hybrid connector. DSL offers 1.5 MB/sec of aggregate bandwidth per connector( figure a little lower if you bleed off a portion for voice) On the surface it would appear that Cable is approx 7 times faster. Not true. Both signal at approx .61C (61% the speed of light) when you factor in latency. Cable can (in theory) offer 7 times the volume of data transfer that DSL can. Think of an 8 lane highway vs a 2 lane highway with a 60 MPH speed limit. The 8 lane can carry more cars at 60 MPH than the 2 lane.(Less chance for you to get stuck behind a slow truck). OTOH, DSL is generally faster due to the less complex intermediate circutry than Cable. DSL plugs into the main backbone (T3 lines) with fewer routers figured in. Cable generally jumps through more *hoops* to get to the backbone.

In my area, Cable runs $39.95 a month w/$39.95 hookup(one time charge) and no cost for the equipment. ADSL, runs $39.95 a month plus a $179.00 hookup charge that includes the use of their equipment. No provision is made for my own equipment.

True you can be connected 7 by 24 if you wish, but you can still shut off your PC when you don't use it. The biggest threat from outside is a misconfigured firewall or proxy, or storing sensative data on a shared resource. The higher access rate of your PC, as opposed to a modem, make it more available to an external attack. In reality though, how much is someone going to gain from accessing your PC vs say the IRS? My system, while semi secure, has little in the way of interest to anybody. It still takes time to crack into a system, and other than the "yeah I did did it" thing, nothing to gain. F-prot, a free anti virus from datafellows, can pretty much catch 99.9% of the viri out there. The other 1/10 of 1%, take time to do their work, and generally show up long before any damage is done. Keep the original installation disks for your software and operating system, and store/backup your data to off-line storage, and even if a virus trashes your system, you can get back up in a few hours. Win95/98 need reinstalled every few months or so anyhow, so it isn't really a big deal.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited April 22, 2000).]
 
RAE is correct. you are only vulnerable if your computer is on. My friends have had DSL for close to 2 years now and hasn't had any know problems. his computer is off maybe 12 hours a month. I jsut installed a IPmasq over a linux box for him and still no problems.

ON the other had, my other friend is doing web hosting off his DSL. and the pages on his servers have been hacked mulitple times. BUt I have a feeling they are inside jobs. just friends being friends if you know what i mean. (If you don't,We tech people like to play jokes on each other)

ok done


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It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
http://yellowman.virtualave.net/
 
I work for a telephone company and have an adsl line. I once down loaded an upgrade from Microsoft that was supposed to take 30 minutes on a regular telephone line. It took me about 4 minutes on my adsl line. The "roadrunner " is a little faster now, but once alot of people in your area get it, it logjams and slows down. With either one your pages load up alot quicker than a telephone line. The other plus is with either of these you don't tie up your phone line. If you live in Bell Atlantics area , unlimited internet access is included with their ADSL service.
 
In my research of DSL vs Cable here is the key factor I found.

A DSL connection is 9 times faster then a 28.8 dial-up modem line.
A cable modem is 50 times faster then a 28.8 dial-up modem line.

I choose the cable modem and i'm very pleased. I have it connected to a machine running a firewall and proxy server and then share the modem so all the computers in my house can log into my network and have access to the internet throught the cable modem.

Yes, a cable modem can get slower if all your neighboors are on the same segment but a DSL can also have a bottle neck at the server level where all the DSL connections are coming into. I still think a slowed down cablem modem is way faster the a DSL.
 
I have had a cable modem for 1 1/2 years and they are just now begining to offer DSL. There are a about 6 different companies offering a dozen different pricing plans, each plan has a different cost&speed combination. It still comes down to the most speed/bandwidth per buck. Here the cable modem still wins - for now.
 
As RAE pointed out, distance from you to the provider is a key factor in DSL due to the resistence in the copper lines. As well, the phone company must be set up etc.

My county can only accomodate 30,000 clients right now...and none are rural. An article in the paper said that you must be within 3.3 mi of the central office.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I'm facing a similar choice: a high speed internet connection for my home that won't tie up the phone.

The cable modem looks promising but I am loathe to do business with AOL Time Warner, whose Roadrunner service appears to be the only game in town. I really hate the idea of putting any money in the pockets of those freedom-phobes.
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Futo, I have RoadRunner CM and am delighted with it. I can't address all the techie aspects others here have, I just know what I like.
They did have to put in a card, and the modem itself is external, and attaches to the card. The whole process din't take them more than 30 mins. (Including running in the extra coax.)
The installation guy ran a test to show me how fast it downloads, and it was running at about 612K. (Columbia, SC-about 6,000 cable modem subscribers at this time.)

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Shoot straight regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
I've had DSL in my APT for a full year, and it's great. Unfortunately, my computer's in really bad shape, I might as well have a 14.4K modem.

I hooked up to a test site that told me the speed I was connectyed at by checking how long it takes to download some test data. It said I was a little over 400K (compared to 56K, that's not bad).

I stay connected all day and I like it. No privacy or virus problems to speak of... yet
wink.gif


Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
I work for AT@T selling @home service (cable modem) in our call center. Now with a cable modem you are faster and cheaper. The monthly charge is 39.95 a month and this includes the isp ( dsl usually makes you get your own ), the connection, the equipment ( the cable modem which is external and a network card, dsl makes you buy your own equipment ), and we give you 7 email addresses and 10 mb webspace per address. I have the @home service at my house and I have seen 3.5 mb a second download, and one night I downloaded 150 mb in 15 minutes.

If the moderators or anyone doesn't mind my number is 1-888-262-6300 ask for Jeff Nix ext. 34044.
 
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