Taurus 92 AF primer question

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Dieselhorses

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Hope this ended up in correct forum. Own an older (1991) 92 AF-D. Purchased it a couple of weeks ago. Given it's age, it's pretty tight but could use a face lift. Not exactly new to reloading but "new" to reloading 9 mm. Reloaded 50 rounds-4.5 gr Titegroup, Win spp, and 115 gr Montana gold jhp's with slight crimp and COL of 1.12 +/- .002. Upon examining spent cases I noticed a ripple/extrusion around firing pin mark. Primer didn't appear all that flattened but had me concerned. I examined the slide and firing pin of pistol but looked normal. Needless to say this is supposed to be a starting load via Hodgdon's data. No, I didn't try CCI primers yet but I will.
 

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I have a couple of the same pistols, I have zero issues with them.
They do have a little large holes in the slide (firing pin hole), and do the same thing with soft primers.
The primers come out OK and the primer pockets don't suffer, so I don't sweat it.

I actually perfer Taurus, safety on the frame, safety goes the correct direction to fire (down), accepts match barrels, etc. Older versions don't have decock, good solid carry pistol for me.
No issues with loose pins or broken firing pins like I had with Beretta.
It cycles most everything, from hollows to truncated to round ball.

You are at the upper limit with tight group, it's a pretty hot load...
 
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Does the pistol's firing pin have slop in the firing channel. Cratering in primer could be an indication of high pressure.

9mm could be a bit tricky for beginners. Titegroup may not be the best powder to begin with. HS6 is more forgiving.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
That PPU brass is Serbian, Prvi Partisan - I reload their 9mm brass once and leave it at the range after I shoot it. The rifle brass is better.

The condition of the primer I would think it was overpressure. Do you have any idea of how fast they are going? How does the lip of the case look (is it thick)?
 
That looks like a cratered primer to me. I believe the causes of such a thing are excessive pressure, or an oversized firing pin hole/soft primer. Do you see the same cratering when you fire a factory 115gn round?
 
Will fire some factory ammo. I reckon I jumped the gun in posting this. Will give updates when I go through some factory loads and switch to some CCI primers for hand loads. FYI TG's starting load IS 4.5 (. Also seems there is no "slope" in f-pin channel BUT f-pin seems extra "truncated" maybe allowing a soft primer to "flow" around pin.
 
The firing pin tip should be a smooth hemisphere. When the rear of the firing pin is flush with the back end of the slide, the tip should almost totally stick out of the breech face, so that the firing pin channel is filled by the firing pin shank. If the tip is too much under flush, brass will indeed flow into the cavity, leave alone misfire caused by insufficient firing pin protrusion. This is most certainly undesirable. A gunsmith can fit a new firing pin to improve the situation.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
You said you loaded up 50 rounds with 4.5 gr of Titegroup...did you do any workup loads at the lower end and work up to 4.5 or did you just decide to load up 4.5 and shoot them....if you did a work up then what did the primers look like at the lower powder loads...Really hope you did a work up and not just picking out 4.5 arbitrarily...Tightgroup is not a powder that is very forgiving
 
The starting load is 4.5 grains. Concerning firing pin, TL, I think that may be the case. Will be doing trigger job and while ordering d spring and such, will order another firing pin.
 
Does Taurus sell parts? If they don't, or if the new pin is still short, a good smith can retip the pin.

But still, you may want to re-consider using titegroup. It is indeed less forgiving than the other powders.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Yes i know TG is temperamental, especially when I tried it in my SW 500! Works wonders in my Ruger P90-45. It's fast burning. I go to Numrich.com for parts as Taurus takes forever to answer phone.
 
The starting load is 4.5 grains.
Click to expand...
The starting load is 4.5 grains for 115 GR. Speer GDHP and the starting load is 3.9 grains for 115 GR. LRN on the Hogdgon website. The Lyman #48 list the starting powder at 4.0gr and max at 4.5 for a 115gr Hornady HP XTP.

You are shooting 115 gr Montana gold jhp. I would guess that the sectional density for the MG is not the same as Speer's GDHP especially since they do not list it or load recommendations on the Montana Gold web page. It is evident that the jacket material is different with the color. I would also guess the MG JHP is more like the HDY XTP and you are at the ragged edge of an overpowered load. This is where a chronograph would be helpful as there is no established load data for the Montana Gold.

You might want to get a couple other loading manuals as well. I have 4 different manuals and the Lyman#48 was the only one that had a load for TG in a 115gr bullet.
 
From an old machinist's/mechanic's perspective the photo is interesting and to me doesn't appear to be "cratering". Notice the inner "crater" is even with the outer ring. Looks like to me that the firing pin hole is too large resulting in a lip flowing into the hole then the re-seating of the primer against the bolt face flattens the outer ring to the same depth as the inner "crater". But then I don't have anything but a photo to go by...
 
"...for 115 GR. Speer GDHP...for a 115gr Hornady HP XTP..." A jacketed bullet is a jacketed bullet. You do not require bullet specific data.
That primer appears to have flowed into the firing pin hole on the slide. More likely stamped by it. If there are no other pressure signs, hard extraction being one, I wouldn't worry too much. A start load isn't going to cause that anyway.
What's the face of the slide look like?
"...Lyman #48 list..." All manuals will be different. The Lyman #48 was published in 2002. Data is safe to use, but it's old. Current Lyman manual is #50.
 
slide

Here is a couple pics of slide.
 

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If "a jacketed bullet is a jacketed bullet" please explain why I get the following velocities with the same load within a 15 degree temp swing:
RMR 124gr RNFB FMJ 1128fps
RMR 124gr RNHB FMJ 1289fps
Montana Gold 124gr FMJ RN 1226fps
PD 124gr JHP 1101fps
Hornady 125gr HP XTP 1234fps

The differences in ogive, the cross sectional density of the core, the alloy mix of the jacket, and the minute differences in the diameter will all contribute to how a bullet reacts to a charge. That is the reason any new bullet needs to be worked up. If you look at my numbers the MG was in the faster group but it grouped better 50fps slower.

Titegroup is one of powders that will pressure spike very easily. I buy a new manual every 10 years and I am due next year. Of the 4 manuals I have there was only 1 that had a load for TG. If you have a published load recommendation from a newer manual that is not one of the Hodgdon test loads then please share it.

Given that the gun is a 1991 Taurus with an unknown round count and the OP is planning to replace some springs, I would also suggest a new firing pin, a full set of springs, extractor pawl, and a locking block. The D spring does a good job decreasing the trigger pull about 2 pounds. All of this from Numrich should be less than $40.

And if you are short magazines get the upgraded 17 round mags instead of the 15 rounders.
 
Your primers look like they were fired in a Beretta 92. I've seen this before from ammo fired in the Berettas.

Some guns leave a characteristic imprint on the primer, and I suspect that's what you see. There's simply too much space between the firing pin and firing pin hole, and the primer metal is flowing back around it.

You see the same thing in a Glock, where you can tell it's been fired in a Glock. You can see a rectangular imprint of the firing pin slot in the breech face on the fired primer.

Given your load data, I doubt you have excess pressure.
 
Going to take ALL into consideration thus aforementioned and post results later after I mix up the variables a bit. Thanks for all the valuable info!
 
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