tyhanks fellows, that is a lot of good ideas. its windy here in okla. so i think the cardboard will work verry well. some of the young people sure are hard on targets, as for me and 38 spl w.c . 20 yards is fine but 25 and every thing gets fuzzey, i dont think it the fact that i am 81, ithink it is the diet coke. thanks cjs