Taper Crimp 9mm

A

Anth

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I'm experiencing feed/chambering issues with my 124 grain, copper plated bullet in once or more than once fired brass with a 1.15 COL using CCI 500 pistol primers and 3.7 grains of TiteGroup powder. My bullets are Ranier round nosed. The slide is not completely sliding forward. It plinks properly in both my gauge and the barrel of my Kahr PM9.
I'm feeling it's related to my taper crimp (unless more experienced re-loading offer other potential causes). I'm looking for suggestions on caliper measurements for the crimp. I'm seeing .356 and .375. Input would be appreciated.
 
Copper plated bullets use cast bullet data. Not likely an issue though.
There really is no exact measurement for a crimp. It's "just enough to take out the flare". You should be able to see a tiny taper on the case mouth. Bit of shiny taper on the mouth about 5/32" wide. Easier to do than describe.
Plan 'B' would be to reduce the OAL a tick. Like 1.140".
You having issue with a pistol other than the Kahr? If the loaded cartridge drops into the Kahr's chamber and sits with the case head flush with the back of the chamber, it should be fine.
You being gentle with the slide? As in easing it closed?
 
Hello Anth, I've been loading 9MM for quite a few years. I suspect I've run into most of the issues that can occur when reloading this, and other cartridges. There are many variables, but if you'll bear with me, I'll try to limit my input to 10,000 words or less;-) Over the years I've measured a number of examples of foreign and domestic 9MM factory ammo case mouth dimensions. These dimensions had a range of .3735" - .378". I usually set my taper crimp die to produce case mouth diameters of ~.375". Of course some case walls are thicker or thinner than others, and bullet diameters with jacketed and plated bullets suitable for 9MM may run between .354" and .356," so a taper crimp somewhere within the range I listed is probably going to work for you. Another factor, as suggested by PA-Joe, is that the bullet ogive may be running into the rifling lead just ahead of the chamber. This is something that is not really uncommon due to the many bullet shapes available, and individual firearm differences in the rifling lead. Just seating the bullet deeper by increments might very well solve the problem. For instance 9MM NATO rifling leads have a larger diameter and longer lead, so about any projectile even near factory spec will fully chamber. SAAMI specs for commercial 9MMs are slightly different and may not be quite so tolerent. Some factory barrels,like SIG, and aftermarket barrels like Bar-Sto typically have tighter chamber dimensions and tighter tighter and closer rifling leads. They will not fully chamber reloads that would not be an issue at all in the Glock for instance. OK, one last thing and I'll shut up for awhile. The case head diameter of fired cases is not sized down to the same dimension as that of new unfired brass with our commercial reloading dies. With tighter, but still in spec chambers, this can result in reloaded rounds that will not chamber. Actually, letting the slide slam forward will usually cause the reload to chamber, but I don't consider this as desireable. When we do this, the problem is not really solved. I carried a gun for a living for a long time. When issued new ammo, we field stripped our pistols and used our actual barrel as a case guage. All ammo should drop into the chamber to the proper depth, and fall out just as easily when the barrel is tipped the other way......ymmv
 
I spoke with a real nice guy at Ranier, he advised 1.135 for oal. As for crimp, the diameters referenced for mimicking factory ammo is about right. Just a tad under, I use .378 ish. I'm loading 115 Rainer,Berrys, Zero's with about 4.1-4.2 Titegroup.

This load has worked well for me on 5 different pistols.

Good luck,
David
 
I have a carbine that doesn't like plated bullets.
It will shoot jacketed bullets all day long, load up some
plated and the round gets hung up loading into the chamber.
 
You have received some good advice so far. All I want to add is that I use the Lee FCD and shoot for around .376" diameter after taper crimping. The plunk test using your barrel is important, but you should also be able to turn the case with ease while it is in the barrel and then it should just drop out when the barrel is flipped. You should also create a few dummy rounds and then load them into the magazine and cycle them through your gun. During this test you can also check for setback just to make sure you have good neck tension.

Good luck and be safe.
 
I didn't even see you OAL, your too long for my pistols. I load all 9mm to a min of 1.120, HP down to 1.080. I don't have any pistols that will feed over 1.125. I have a hipoint carbine that will eat them as long as you can make them, but reduce your lengh and you will be fine. hopefully your crimp wasn't t much to where your going to damage your plating seating deeper.
 
I was thinking the same as skizzums. I load all my 9mm to 1.12 OAL simply because Walter requires that length but I use a RCBS FCD.

Now as to what T O Heir posted about loading plated to cast velocities that is wrong. You can load them to moderate jacketed velocities. Even my powder coated bullets are loaded to jacketed velocities.

The plating on the electroplated bullets is pretty thick.
 
Extreme bullets allows for up to 1500fps with their bullets, or recommend anyhow. I don't what data you use, your not going to get that speed out of a 9mm. I would only be concern ed about lead vs jacketed when loading 357 or up. I prefer to keep my plated under 1200fps like most other plating companies reccomend. Either way, your not going to have Mich of an issue with such a small caliber.
 
The slide is not completely sliding forward.
It plinks properly in both my gauge and the barrel of my Kahr PM9.
Click to expand...
Have you tried different magazines?
Have you tried a TINY dab of grease on the slide rails?
 
It's not grease or mags. Just oal. If the bullet is too long, when it gets angled up to feed ot is going to slam into the top of the chamber. Just go shorter and be done
 
Anth said:
The slide is not completely sliding forward. It plinks properly in both my gauge and the barrel of my Kahr PM9.
Click to expand...

Do they still "plink" properly after the slide won't close close on them?
 
Kahr. Very steep feed ramp. The little pistol can experience feeding problems. How many rounds have you run through the gun? I think certain bullet profiles impact the feed ramp in such a way that energy from the slide is absorbed causing a failure of the round to fully go into battery. Sometimes the round will stick on the ramp, sometimes fail to go into battery, but can be bumped in with slight tap on rear of slide. I have had this problem with Berry's 124 grain flat point hollow back bullets running at lower velocity in my Kahr P9.

Shortening the OAL may help. May need different bullet to change the profile. May need to break in the Kahr if it hasn't had 200+ rounds through it yet.

If the cartridges drop into the barrel then you don't have a size problem. May have a feeding issue as discussed above. You may need to also check your grip on the little pistol. A loose grip can cause feeding problems in the compact handguns.
 
Kahr. Very steep feed ramp. The little pistol can experience feeding problems.
Click to expand...

I have and carry a Kahr CW9. I have about 1500/2000 rounds through it.

It has never failed to feed; failed to eject; failed to go into battery; failed to fire; or failed in any way that I can possibly think of.

I have put every profile of bullet - including lead SWC's - and it just gobbles up and spits out everything.

I have absolute confidence in it; and this, coming from a revolver guy.

Just my experience.
 
dds51968 said:
I spoke with a real nice guy at Ranier, he advised 1.135 for oal
Click to expand...

I agree. I load Rainer 124 gr HP and RN exclusively and 1.135" C.O.A.L. has worked perfectly across a wide variety of handguns. 1.15" might be getting caught up somehow on its way into the chamber. It sounds like you're doing alright with the taper crimp. As others have said, adjust it so that it is taking the flair out of the case mouth and really nothing more. Try a shorter cartridge length, adjust your powder charge accordingly and see what happens.
 
The problem is when you plunk test you are actuall feeding the cartridge by hand so you are not using the natural angle of feed from the mag.

I was working on a Lama two weeks ago and it had problems feeding when you releases the slide with the slide release. If you pulled the slide back and releases the slide it worked fine
 
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