I am just getting into reloading. I have several guns Im going to reload for but I would like to 'tame' some of the insane recoil from my 7mm rem mag. My question is, when selecting powder, I know you start from the suggested minimum grain weight, choose lighter bullets, etc. But am I right in assuming the powder with the least pressure listed in the load data will be my best bet for taming the recoil? IMR 4064, IMR 4350, IMR 4831, IMR 7828, and Reloader 22 seem to be some of the more listed powders in the Lyman book.
Taming the recoil 7mm Mag
- Thread starter Taco-XL
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jwrowland77
New member
Go with a light bullet, that'll help some. I run a 139gr BTSP over IMR 4350. It's a nice easy shooting load. I mean, it is what it is, a 7mm Rem Mag. It's going to have some kick.
Good luck and welcome to the world of reloading.
Good luck and welcome to the world of reloading.
Pathfinder45
New member
If you have, "insane recoil", it could be, that your rifle doesn't weigh as much as it should. Tell us more about your rifle. How much does it weigh? What about the stock? A lot of the synthetic stocks are lighter in weight than Walnut, while laminated wood tends to be heavier yet. Perhaps you are simply discovering that magnum performance comes at the price of greater recoil. However, that being said, the 7mm Remington magnum should recoil slightly more than a 30-'06 or even a hot-loaded-with-heavy-bullets 270 Winchester, in rifles of the same weight. Also, if you are taller than average with long arms, the stock may be too short for you. I like slip-on recoil pads for two reasons: First of all, for the obvious reason of softening recoil. Secondly, and perhaps just as important for taller shooters, is that it has the effect of lengthening the stock, and that alone can reduce perceived recoil, as it gets your grip further from your face. No one I know, likes being punched in the nose, yet some rifles that are too short for the shooter, will do that everytime the trigger is pulled. You can tolerate a lot more recoil from a rifle that fits you well than you can from one that doesn't. I have shot a 250 Savage model 99 that was stocked for a shorter person. It had very high perceived recoil as it punched me in the nose every shot. Insane recoil leads to flinching and poor shooting.
No matter what stock he has, a 7mm mag still has lots of recoil and lots of muzzle blast (unless the rifle has a very long barrel). It is a very large case that holds a large volume of powder. When pushing full-power loads, it is going to always be a handful.
However, there is nothing that says you can't take that normal 7mm mag velocity of 3100+fps with a 140gr and back it down to 2800 or so fps. In essence, you are turning it into a 7mm-08 with an oversized case.
However, there is nothing that says you can't take that normal 7mm mag velocity of 3100+fps with a 140gr and back it down to 2800 or so fps. In essence, you are turning it into a 7mm-08 with an oversized case.
Pathfinder45
New member
Right, it can be down-loaded. But then, it's not really a 7mm magnum. Might as well have a different rifle.
William T. Watts
New member
What the OP described is why I no longer have a 7mm mag, a 30/06 is about all I can handle without developing a flinch. As I recall with a 160gr bullet the 7mm mag develops about 25 Foot Pounds of recoil, the 30/06 is about 22 with a 165gr bullet, there's nothing I hunt that requires more than what my 30/06 will deliver. I think the average hunter will shoot more accurately with a lighter recoiling rifle IMO!! William
Lots of recoil??? Hardly. A bit more than a 30-06 or 280 Rem. A hot loaded Marlin 45-70 has a stouter kick. My 375 RUM which weighs in at 8.25 lbs. with scope has lots of recoil.
But if the recoil is too much for the shooter, he can pick a faster powder and download to 7mm-08 / 7x57 levels of performance. Near starting loads of 4064 or H414 / W760 with 140 gr. bullets clock in around 2600-2750 fps.
He can change recoil pads and gain some relief that way. Adding weight to the stock also helps. Having a stock fitted to him is another option.
I agree with the P.A.S.T. recoil pad, I have one.
I used to own a beautiful model 70 with laminated stock in 7mm RM. I was happy when I sold it, the kick was brutal. Always shot 150 gr bullets from this rifle, I sold it and kept a 700 Classic in .300 H&H mag that I swear kicked less with 180 gr bullets.
I used to own a beautiful model 70 with laminated stock in 7mm RM. I was happy when I sold it, the kick was brutal. Always shot 150 gr bullets from this rifle, I sold it and kept a 700 Classic in .300 H&H mag that I swear kicked less with 180 gr bullets.
The recoil is between your ears. Someone told you a magnum kicked harder and you believe it. In comparable weight guns you should never be able to tell the difference between 30-06 and 7 mag. You'll never notice the difference between performance on game or trajectory either.
Some things you can do.
Lighter bullets. With the better bullets available today some of the more stoutly constructed bullets will do the job heavier bullets used to be needed for. When considering powder figure out which powder uses the least weight to get the desired velocity. If you can find a powder that needs 60 gr to develop the same speed as another powder that needs 65 gr it will recoil less.
Some things you can do.
Lighter bullets. With the better bullets available today some of the more stoutly constructed bullets will do the job heavier bullets used to be needed for. When considering powder figure out which powder uses the least weight to get the desired velocity. If you can find a powder that needs 60 gr to develop the same speed as another powder that needs 65 gr it will recoil less.
Pathfinder45
New member
I think that 300 H&H has well more recoil than the 7mm Remington. However, if it's stock fits you better, you WILL swear it kicks less.
Why not a muzzle break? Because it makes an already loud rifle, INSANELY LOUD!!!!!! To each their own. Some of us hate muzzle brakes, and for good reason.
The 7mm Remington Magnum is essentially a powerful big-game rifle, at it's best with bullets or 140 grain to 175 grain weight, with 160's perhaps being ideal. It's fine to load it down for volume practice. But if you are going to hunt with reduced loads, perhaps you really would be better served with a milder rifle anyway. I don't think that the 7mm magnum is that much more powerful than an '06 or 270 Winchester. But it might be just over the recoil tolerance level of many shooters. Optimizing the fit of the stock and adding a recoil pad can make all the difference you need. If it's a lightweight rifle, again, it's going to kick harder. It's far better to hit an Elk in the vitals with a 243 Winchester, than make a gut-shot with a 7mm magnum. Might as well miss altogether. To me, the only reason to keep that rifle when another would serve me better, is if it was handed down to me as a family heirloom. Then I'd work with it until the rifle and I could acheive a working relationship. Down- loading it is only one option and not the only thing to do. Afterall, it is a 7mm magnum, right? Or not......
Me? I would prefer a 270 Winchester, but 30-'06 would do just as well.
Why not a muzzle break? Because it makes an already loud rifle, INSANELY LOUD!!!!!! To each their own. Some of us hate muzzle brakes, and for good reason.
The 7mm Remington Magnum is essentially a powerful big-game rifle, at it's best with bullets or 140 grain to 175 grain weight, with 160's perhaps being ideal. It's fine to load it down for volume practice. But if you are going to hunt with reduced loads, perhaps you really would be better served with a milder rifle anyway. I don't think that the 7mm magnum is that much more powerful than an '06 or 270 Winchester. But it might be just over the recoil tolerance level of many shooters. Optimizing the fit of the stock and adding a recoil pad can make all the difference you need. If it's a lightweight rifle, again, it's going to kick harder. It's far better to hit an Elk in the vitals with a 243 Winchester, than make a gut-shot with a 7mm magnum. Might as well miss altogether. To me, the only reason to keep that rifle when another would serve me better, is if it was handed down to me as a family heirloom. Then I'd work with it until the rifle and I could acheive a working relationship. Down- loading it is only one option and not the only thing to do. Afterall, it is a 7mm magnum, right? Or not......
Me? I would prefer a 270 Winchester, but 30-'06 would do just as well.
"...The recoil is between your ears..." The recoil is physics and nothing else. Felt recoil can be in your head though. Used to be that the .45 ACP was called a big, nasty, heavy recoiling, cartridge. Scared a lot of people. Actually shooting one and knowing how felt recoil is reduced changes that. Ditto for the muzzle blast. Change where that goes and the felt recoil feels like it's less.
For taming the recoil you need to think physics. Lower bullet weights with less velocity is what does that. Add weight to the rifle and/or change the area the recoil pushes on with a wider butt stock works too. Stock design matters as well.
"...INSANELY LOUD!!!!!!..." Is being polite.
For taming the recoil you need to think physics. Lower bullet weights with less velocity is what does that. Add weight to the rifle and/or change the area the recoil pushes on with a wider butt stock works too. Stock design matters as well.
"...INSANELY LOUD!!!!!!..." Is being polite.
Large Limbsaver grind to fit recoil pad that are not ground, so as to preserve as much shoulder contact area as possible.
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/recoil-parts/recoil-pads/limbsaver-grind-medium-sku902000073-18220-42179.aspx
Shoot 120 gr Nos Ballistic Tips with 28 gr Blue Dot, for 2500 fps 35 kpsi.
The forward momentum should be [120 gr /7000 gr/lb] 2500 fps + [28 gr/7000 gr/lb] 4500 fps = 61 lb fps
If the rifle and scope and recoil pad weigh 10 pounds then the rifle should be recoiling at 6.1 fps
The recoil will stop in 1/4" = 0.021 feet before your shoulder and rifle are at the same speed near zero.
F = M A = 10 pounds [0.031 slugs/ pound][6.1 fps / 0.021 feet] = 90 pounds
The pressure on the shoulder = Force / area
The recoil pad is ~ 10 square inches
The peak pressure on the recoil pad with be 90 pounds/10 sq in = 9 psi
The threshold of pain [for MY skin per my amateur experiments] = ~ 20 pounds / sq inch
So that 7mmRM will not hurt at all, and will kill any deer out to 300 yards.
You will have to know what you are doing with deer at 400 yards.. aim for the lungs after practicing at long range targets.
JeepHammer
Moderator
I had (notice the past tense?) a 7mm Rem Mag that beat me to a pulp!
First off, for some reason, the 7mm Rem Mags were built as 'Mountain' or 'Hunting' rifles,
Really light, tapered barrels, soda straw thin at the muzzle, taking weight away from the rifle an heavier profile barrel would provide...
KICKED LIKE A MULE ON STEROIDS!
You get to noticing some things over the years,
I noticed everyone with a 7mm mag has a LOT of eye relief off the scope!
A bunch have rubber cushions on the ocular bell of the optics than you see with other common caliber rifles,
These guys were ahead of the game!
I don't know one 7mm Mag owner that doesn't have a few choice stories about 'Scope Eye',
I still have a scar some 30 years later!
----
Recoil comes in two parts,
The rearward movement of the rifle,
And the recoil DURATION, the TIME it bears down on your shoulder.
Duration is sometimes called 'Impulse Duration'...
Doesn't matter what they call it, it will still knock your teeth loose!
Now, simple physics,
For every action, there is an OPPOSITE AND EQUAL REACTION...
Lighten the bullet and/or reduce the charge burn rate/pressure and that will help.
The second simple physics lesson,
Bodies in motion tend to stay in motion, UNLESS acted on by an outside force.
More weight to the rifle is an 'Outside Force'.
Keep in mind, a heaver rifle is harder to get moving by the recoil,
But it's also harder to get stopped,
LONGER IMPULSE DURATION since a heavier rifle won't move as EASILY,
But it's harder to get stopped once it does get into motion.
The "Energy Absorption Material" is CURRENTLY YOUR SHOULDER...,
(And your eye socket if you don't have enough scope relief!)
Giving some 'Soggy' material, (IE: Soggy Recoil Pad), to defuse/redirect some of that energy is a good thing.
The more 'Soggy' the pad material, the more energy it's going to be absorbed as the mushy stuff gets moved around,
AND,
As the mushy stuff is COMPACTED, the energy is RE-DIRECTED as bulges on the sides,
NOT delivered directly to your shoulder joint.
Longer impulse, since the mushy stuff is going to return to it's previous shape and push back on your shoulder,
But the DIRECT MOVEMENT REARWARD is delayed,
'FELT RECOIL' reduces with increased TIME given you by the mushy stuff...
---
So I'm recommending all of the above,
1. Give the rifle some extra weight, getting mass/weight moving absorbs a lot of energy,
2. If you aren't trying to shoot 1,000 yards, dial back on the load, Reducing the total energy in the first place.
3. And get yourself a 'Spongy' Gel type recoil pad,
Either mounted on the rifle, or hanging on your shoulder...
4. Muzzle breaks work! They take a gun smith to install correctly...
My only issue with them is, they often redirect the muzzle blast over pressure back to the shooter and anyone else around the shooter.
Hearing isn't something you want to take for granted, and keep as much of as you can...
---
There is a guy that is smaller in stature, that still shoots a 7mm Mag regularly,
He cut a gel pad out of a bicycle seat, it's about 1-1/2 inches thick,
And sewed a pocket into a 'Shooting Shirt', put the pad in the pocket...
He had to take a corresponding amount of stock off, but that was OK with him to reduce the beating he was taking,
And the stock was too long for him to start with, so it got a little 'Extra' taken off in the process.
I call it his 7mm shirt, and after owning one, I'm not about to make fun of that shirt!
I wish I'd had 'Gel Pads' back then, and had thought of that myself!
No wonder all those 'Buffalo' hunters had a big sheep's wool shoulder pad they would strap on before shooting some big Sharps all day long!
-----
IF the 7mm is your chosen rifle,
DO NOT HESITATE to cut the stock off, get as THICK a gel recoil pad as you need!
Stack them as necessary...
I don't know your age, but as you get older, every hard recoil bruised bone, damaged rotator cuff, socket/bone end bruise, ect. shows up as Arthritis...
Just don't do that to yourself if you can help it!
Getting old isn't for sissies!
And you WILL feel every hard recoil at some point in the future...
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Pathfinder45
New member
For me, I wouldn't cut the stock at all before adding the recoil pad. I like the extra length. But then, If I was 5'6" tall, I might feel differently. I'm 6'0", and I feel that a little more length of pull is a good thing. A lot of men are quite a bit taller. I don't know how they can stand for a standard length stock, especially on a rifle noted for substantial recoil.
This is from an article in Handloader Magazine #44 July-August 1973 by the late John Wooters called "Stairstep Loading the Magnums.
Bullet weight .280 Rem/.284WCF/7MM Express 7x57 Mauser
140 gr. 57.0 gr./4320 54.0 gr./4895
160 gr. 52.0 gr,/4064 50.0gr./4895
175 gr. 51.0 gr./4064 50.0 gr./4320
These are loads worked up by Mr. Wooters for the 7MM Rem. Mag. If recoil is that bad I'd suggest a Pachmeyr recoil pad and the best hearing protection available. I once had a rifle in .308 Win. with a 20" barrel that was one of the worst kicking guns I'd ever shot. Even a new recoil pad wasn't much help till I got a very good pair of ear protectors. Once I tried those, all I could ask was, Where did the kick go?" The Past Recoil shield is also a big help and goes a long way toward softening the blow of the big ones. Those loads should help you work your tolerance to the 7MM Mag. recoil. Start with the 7x57 and when you're used to that move on up to the .280 level. You'll knos when you're ready to go all the way with the Mag loads.
Paul B.
Bullet weight .280 Rem/.284WCF/7MM Express 7x57 Mauser
140 gr. 57.0 gr./4320 54.0 gr./4895
160 gr. 52.0 gr,/4064 50.0gr./4895
175 gr. 51.0 gr./4064 50.0 gr./4320
These are loads worked up by Mr. Wooters for the 7MM Rem. Mag. If recoil is that bad I'd suggest a Pachmeyr recoil pad and the best hearing protection available. I once had a rifle in .308 Win. with a 20" barrel that was one of the worst kicking guns I'd ever shot. Even a new recoil pad wasn't much help till I got a very good pair of ear protectors. Once I tried those, all I could ask was, Where did the kick go?" The Past Recoil shield is also a big help and goes a long way toward softening the blow of the big ones. Those loads should help you work your tolerance to the 7MM Mag. recoil. Start with the 7x57 and when you're used to that move on up to the .280 level. You'll knos when you're ready to go all the way with the Mag loads.
Paul B.