Tale of Two 5.7’s
- Thread starter mk70ss
- Start date
I've gotta say, the M&P5.7 is certainly the most aesthetically pleasing 5.7x28 pistol on the market, IMO. If I were going to get one, then the M&P would be my first choice.
That being said, I really wish that someone would make a new pistol chambered in 7.62x25 Tokarev, a ballistically similar cartridge with a bit more mass/weight to it that predates the 5.7x28 by several decades.
That being said, I really wish that someone would make a new pistol chambered in 7.62x25 Tokarev, a ballistically similar cartridge with a bit more mass/weight to it that predates the 5.7x28 by several decades.
One of the issues, just one, with the 7.62x25 is fitting in magazine wells designed for other cartridges. At 35.2mm over all length just to long to fit in <name your preferred frame>.
Now we have 5.7x28 which has an overall length around 40.5mm. So there are at least 3 current production frames that are long enough to handle the Tokarev (with room to spare).
The case diameters mean that unless the frame is wider then a mag in the same length is going to hold fewer rounds, Tokarev 9.83mm vs 5.7x28 at 7.95mm but should be possible.
I have to say I like the idea of a Ruger in 7.62x25.
Now we have 5.7x28 which has an overall length around 40.5mm. So there are at least 3 current production frames that are long enough to handle the Tokarev (with room to spare).
The case diameters mean that unless the frame is wider then a mag in the same length is going to hold fewer rounds, Tokarev 9.83mm vs 5.7x28 at 7.95mm but should be possible.
I have to say I like the idea of a Ruger in 7.62x25.
deadcoyote
New member
There is a pistol made by Norinco, a modified clone of an sig P226 that is a double stack modern high capacity 7.62x25. I lust after them but they’re only sold in Canada, not importable to US.
44caliberkid
New member
I also wish manufacturers would offer their 5.7 pistols in 7.62x25. A 100 grain 30 caliber pill at 1800 fps would be pretty awesome.
Unkl Chuck
New member
A "re-birth" of one of the oldest 'modern' pistol cartridges would be interesting. I shoot 7.63(2)X25 in Broomhandles, Tokarevs, and even have a Contender barrel in .30 Mauser. Obviously, I'm a fan.
TruthTellers
New member
I'm not sure what the impetus was when Ruger began the 57 project, the only reason I can think is they wanted to grab as much of the pricey FN market share and at almost half the price anyone interested in 5.7 had a more affordable option.
With Zastava Tokarev clones being $350, there's no way anyone could beat that in price and there's not a huge demand for a modern 7.62x25 pistol. I question if there is demand for 5.7 as after Ruger everyone seemed to jump to grab market share and offer their own 5.7, but who has been asking for this? I'm on these forums at least every other day, I don't recall the years leading up to Ruger releasing the 57 people clamoring for a cheaper 5.7 pistol, not when ammo prices were thrice that of 9mm.
I do recall us all bemoaning the lack of 10mm options other than Glock, then we got a couple, and I started seeing 10mm for around $20 a box, which even now 10mm is half the price of 5.7x28.
Now I'll get to my point: when Ruger started on the 57 there was no more demand for a new 5.7 pistol than there was for a new 7.62x25 pistol and frankly the ballistics show that 7.62x25 is superior to 5.7. With proper bullet design, the 7.62x25 has the velocity to expand a hollow point and at more than twice the mass penetration with that hollow point would achieve FBI minimums. The 5.7 was never meant to use hollow points, it was built for defeating soft armor, which is something 7.62x25 FMJ has been known for decades to do.
The major reason I think the industry has gone with 5.7 is they want to market the high capacity of the pistols as 30 rounds with extended magazines is not uncommon with 5.7 pistols. They can't get that many rounds of 7.62x25 in a pistol and beyond that the industry is likely concerned about the quality of foreign milsurp ammo getting shot in their guns, which is why we haven't seen a 7.62x54r rifle made in the US, even tho Mosin Nagants are some of the highest selling rifles in the country.
With Zastava Tokarev clones being $350, there's no way anyone could beat that in price and there's not a huge demand for a modern 7.62x25 pistol. I question if there is demand for 5.7 as after Ruger everyone seemed to jump to grab market share and offer their own 5.7, but who has been asking for this? I'm on these forums at least every other day, I don't recall the years leading up to Ruger releasing the 57 people clamoring for a cheaper 5.7 pistol, not when ammo prices were thrice that of 9mm.
I do recall us all bemoaning the lack of 10mm options other than Glock, then we got a couple, and I started seeing 10mm for around $20 a box, which even now 10mm is half the price of 5.7x28.
Now I'll get to my point: when Ruger started on the 57 there was no more demand for a new 5.7 pistol than there was for a new 7.62x25 pistol and frankly the ballistics show that 7.62x25 is superior to 5.7. With proper bullet design, the 7.62x25 has the velocity to expand a hollow point and at more than twice the mass penetration with that hollow point would achieve FBI minimums. The 5.7 was never meant to use hollow points, it was built for defeating soft armor, which is something 7.62x25 FMJ has been known for decades to do.
The major reason I think the industry has gone with 5.7 is they want to market the high capacity of the pistols as 30 rounds with extended magazines is not uncommon with 5.7 pistols. They can't get that many rounds of 7.62x25 in a pistol and beyond that the industry is likely concerned about the quality of foreign milsurp ammo getting shot in their guns, which is why we haven't seen a 7.62x54r rifle made in the US, even tho Mosin Nagants are some of the highest selling rifles in the country.
I'll admit that I've been intrigued the M&P 5.7 myself. Nice looking, affordable, and a platform that both my wife and myself are familiar with. I've been thinking that it would be good for home defense (especially for my wife) due to high capacity, low recoil, and excellent "shootability". While overpenetration is of concern with the caliber, we are the only two people living in our single-family home and its brick construction should minimize passage outside our four walls. With the price of ammo for it, it certainly wouldn't be a frequent range shooter.
Still not sure...but I'm thinking about it.
Still not sure...but I'm thinking about it.
There is a huge misconception about this round. The 5.7 round was designed to NOT overpenetrate hard targets. Even the AP round (SS190) does not over penetrate.
In the 1990s, the FN company had a video showing the 5.7 AP round being fired into a cinder block. It went thru the first section (the 1st 1/2). But, the final wall of the cinder block completely stopped the round.
It's actually a great round for people living in an apartment. There have been videos showing that when going thru interior walls, almost all of the round is stopped by the 2nd wall.
9mm will go thru 9 or more walls. If you are worried about a firefight, and rounds going thru walls and injuring people, the 5.7 round is actually a fantastic round.
Doc Intrepid
New member
I had the opportunity last week to examine a Palmetto State Armory 5.7 pistol, and I was unexpectedly impressed with it - particularly the grip. I've shot the Ruger 5.7 and handled the S&W, but neither of them felt particularly 'comfortable' in my hand. The PSA pistol was quite different and fit my hand much more comfortably.
If you're in the market for a 5.7 pistol, its worth consideration:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-5-7-rock-complete-pistol.html
If you're in the market for a 5.7 pistol, its worth consideration:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/palmetto-5-7-rock-complete-pistol.html
Clayman357
New member
My buddy picked one up with the Holosun 407 in a package deal. Awesome gun to shoot. It does fit in my hand great. (Average hand size) Once dialed in could hit my gongs at 50-70 yards everytime. Palmetto had them for as low as $350 for a while. I should have grabbed one...
