Tactical expert needed to help me build my tactical 870

F

Flaman

New member
I have an 870 Express 12 ga. that I'm planing on doing some work to; It'll be my primary home defense weapon. It has a 20" Imp Cyl barrel with rifle sights. Here's what I plan to do:
Replace the rear stock to a Knoxx folding Copstock
Replace the forend stock to either a Speedfeed or hougue overmolded rubber
Add a Knoxx tactical sling
Add a Scattergun tchnologies +2 mag extension (with vertical sling mount)
Add one ATI barrel clamp for the mag extension; and another to mount a Streamlight 2L flashlight to the mag extension.

Now here's where my questions start.

1) Does the Knoxx folding Copstock have a place to to mount a sling to?

2) Which will be a better choice: the Speedfeed or hougue overmolded rubber
forend? Knoxx suggests that a short "combat" forend must be used with the folding rear stock

3) Will the Scattergun technologies +2 mag extension leave enough room to mount two ATI clamps? or would you go with a Choate or Tacstar +3 ?
 
I don't have great answers to you questions. Personally, I would consider some other alternative to your stocks. I would not get a folding stock for a HD firearm. I would get a forestock with an integrated weapons light. I also like tritium front sights on a defensive shotgun.

For the record, I am no tactical expert.
 
tactical expert.

I don't know if you will find an expert on this forum, i will however give you a few words of advice and what you might encounter here.

First off, go for the surefire forend, its eaiser to use and you wont have to fiddle with 2 clamps. Personally, i never liked the idea of using rifle sights for close range, i think a dot is just right. I would also suggest using the scatter gun technologies mag extention, its metal as opposed to plastic.

You will have many people here tell you to leave your 870 alone (lee im looking at you) you have a formidable weapon as it is which most likly needs little to no improvement.

Good luck and have fun making your dream gun.
 
i have a 870 express, i wanted all that add on stuff for mine especially after i put an 18in police barrel on it ,then came the mag extention and clamp of course i had to get a sling for the little swivel stud on the bottom of the clamp and then i bought a synthetic police stock and forend, i also got a little clamp with a flashlight mounted on it while i was at it i bought a six shell side saddle even had one of those elastic shell holders that fit on the stock, sometimes when i would go camping or just go into the woods on my property i would take it along and then one day i said damn this gun is to heavy to be carrying around. even with a sling i know some people might say its just going to be by my bedside but damn you have to take it out and blow the cobwebs out of it once in a while. my bottom line is i left the remington synthetic police stock and forend on it and the 18in police barrel on it. i slowly took all that other crap off wow was it light , now that crap is just laying around my garage collecting dust, believe me the way the 870 is set up now is plenty defensive
 
I have to agree. Unless you just want to spend the money, you do not need a folding stock on HD shotgun. Maybe a mag extension or weapons light but nothing else.
Keep it simple. A basic 870 with a 18"-20" barrel is just what you need. The Remington 870 is in my opinion, a rock solid defense weapon as is. Solid, reliable and ready to go.
 
The first thing you have to decide is WHAT you want:
Do you want a true defense shotgun, or do you want a "Range Toy" to play around with.

If you really want a range toy that looks "COOL" and you can bang around with on the range and show off to your friends, than accessorize away.
By all means, add the electronic sight, the laser sight, the ghost rings, the trick stocks, the bayonet, the accessory rails, and all the ammo you can possible figure out how to carry on it.
The fact that most of these really make the gun LESS effective won't matter since it's really a toy.

If you want a real defense gun, "Less is More".
The less you add to the gun, the lighter and less bulky it will be and the faster you can swing and use it.

The reason the shotgun is the most deadly gun at close range is SPEED.
The shotgun is so effective because while pistol and rifle shooters are still trying to get their sights lined up and on target, the shotgunner has swung his gun on target, blown it away and is looking for another target.
In the shotgun's case, Speed Kills.... the bad guys.

Everything you add to the gun will make it heavier, bulkier and slower in action.
What you have to do, is a real world "cost-benefit" analysis to determine just what advantage an accessory will REALLY gain you that will make up for the loss of speed.

Taking a look at a real pro's shotgun, and you'll be amazed at how little it's been modified.
Most are virtually "box-stock", with possibly only a magazine extension and a light.

So, decide which you want, a toy or a defense gun, then go from there.
 
The best accessory for a HD shotgun is a truckload of ammo. Get good first.

Expertise is 98%, gadgetry 2%.
 
I'd say get either the Knoxx Compstock or SpecOps stock. I have the Compstock and the knoxx stuff is great. Also with these two stocks you can add a sidesaddle if you want to. Get a surefire forearm, much better. Also don't get the knoxx sling, I have one and its not all that great. I'm looking for other options right now.
 
Slings tend to be an essential accessory for range use and tactical classes. For home defense, I am not sure I want to be attached to my shotgun. For HD, I think it is aurguable whether they make sense.
 
I'm not an expert on fighting shotguns, but I know one- I took his class.

Louis Awerbuck has a short list of things that contribute to the utility of a defensive shotgun. According to him, you need a reliable repeating shotgun and the skills to use it safely and effectively, plus:

1) A stock short enough to allow the shooter to use the gun effectively. Most shotgun stocks are too long for many shooters, and it is easier to use a stock that is too short vs. one that is too long. Good recoil pads help.

2) A white light source mounted on the gun that is rugged enough to stand up to recoil and that can be switched on and left on if needed, without needing constant pressure of the support hand on a tape switch. You might need that support hand for other jobs like dialing a phone and you want your light to stay on if you need it on.

3) A sling or carrying strap for the times when you don't need the gun in both hands but don't want to put it down. Yes, he means inside the house.

4) Sights, if the shooter needs them. Sights should be simple, strongly constructed and solidly attached to the shotgun.

It is far far more important to develop your skills in running the gun than to worry about what goodies you bolt onto the gun, if you are indeed serious about home defense with your shotgun. If you just want to impress your friends with what a scary shotgun you have, and post kewl pics of it on the Internet, then it doesn't really matter what you do to it. But if you are serious about home defense you'll concentrate on learning to run the gun and not on buying toys.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc
 
I've come to the conclusion after having asked this question on other forums, that if it doesn't make the gun go boom better, quicker, or help you aim the boom better, it doesn't need to go on the gun for home defense.
On that note, I would add a stock you felt comfortable shooting. I would add sights that will help you put the 9 pellets in a 00 buck shell where you want them. I might (stress might) add a magazine extension so it goes boom more without a reload.
Finally, and most importantly, I would add the surefire foreend. If you cannot see what your trying to hit when something goes bump in the night, then you might end up shooting you 18 year old sneaking home in the middle of the night.
Like the above posters, I stress that I am not a tactical expert,but I've given the home defense shotgun a lot of thought.
 
If you're concerned with carrying more ammo and don't want the bulk of a side saddle, take a look at the Speedfeed stock. They hold 4 extra rounds in the butt stock, 2 on each side.
 
I am no expert by any means, but I do own a built 870.

1) I saw the Copstock at my local store, but I don't recall a sling mount.

2) I am not sure of the length of the foreends from Hogue or Speedfeed, but you may want to consider the Knoxx Foreend. If there are any problems with clearance (w/ Copstock), they would probably be the best to address this issue.

3) My shotgun is built by Scattergun Tech, and I have not tried to mount anything at the end of the extension. If you really want the flashlight, I suggest the Surefire Foreend, but I don't know if the Copstock will clear (gotta call Knoxx on that ;) ). I have the Spec Ops Stock, and I lot it a lot.

You should check out Vangcomp.com. Have fun with your build!
 
Flaman said:
1) Does the Knoxx folding CopStock have a place to to mount a sling to?

2) Which will be a better choice: the Speedfeed or Hogue overmolded rubber
forend? Knoxx suggests that a short "combat" forend must be used with the folding rear stock
Click to expand...

#1 Yes, it has a mounting stud for a removable sling ring.

#2 I like the Houge feel but you should look/touch both before deciding. Pachmayr also makes a nice feeling fore-end but may be too long for the CopStock. Follow Knoxx's advice, they know their product and what fits.

I like the CopStock folder for home defence as it shortens the shotty. It also is a blast to accurately shoot slugs one-handed.
Another useful accessory is a Marble tritium bead nite sight.
There are a lot of lights that will work cheaper than a Surefire. I'm not sure it's cost effective for HD.
Side saddles tend to unbalance the receiver when fully loaded.
Slings in the house could catch on your contents, so I leave them off, unless I am shooting outside.
Put your money into practice ammo and range time.
 
Since your barrel is equipped with rifle sights, suggest you replace the factory sights with XS 24/7 (tritium) Express Shotgun Sights (see http://www.xssights.com/store/shotgun.html ). I have these installed on my 870 (and a similar sight system on my Glock 19) and they're excellent, IMO.

I also suggest the following:

Install a Knoxx SpecOps stock instead of the CopStock. The SpecOps allows you to adjust length of pull. (I have the SpecOps installed on my 870, adjusted to fit my wife. If necessary I easily adapt to the shorter length of pull.)

Install the Surefire Shotgun Fore-end WeaponLight (see http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/92/sesent/00 ) instead of the Speedfeed or Hogue. (It's compatible with the Knoxx SpecOps stock.)

Install the Scatterguns +2 magazine extension with the SIDE sling mount instead of the vertical sling mount.

Personally, I don't see the need for a barrel clamp. Although my 870 is presently fitted with a Remington factory magazine extension, which uses a barrel clamp, I have experience with the Scattergun Technologies +2 extension. The Scatterguns extension mounts securely to the magazine tube and a barrel clamp is is unnecessary. Plus it's something else you need to remove when you want clean the magazine tube or remove the barrel.

I don't like a sling on my shotgun because it's just a PITA. For home defense I don't see the need for a sling. If you take a shotgun class, then I agree with the saying that "a sling is to a shotgun what a holster is to a handgun." Indeed I have a sling for my shotgun, if I need one, but for home defense it's not installed. I prefer the Eagle Industries Tactical Sling, TAS-4-FX, which works well with my Knoxx SpecOps stock (see http://www.eagleindustries.com/ProdDisp.asp?PartNoID=351 ) It's compatible with the Scatterguns +2 magazine extension with the side sling mount.

Suggest you consider a SideSaddle spare shotshell carrier, such at the one made by TacStar (see http://tacstar.com/tacstar/sidesadd.htm ).

With these suggested modifications you'll have an excellent, no nonsense, home defense shotgun.

Cheers!
 
What Lee and Shawn said. :)
I would put a GG&G single point adapter and run a Specter MOUT singlepoint sling as I don't like a sling up front near the pump handle:D
So we have a Surefire forend, +2 REMINGTON FACTORY MAG extension that comes with a proper clamp. A Side saddle and maybe a big head safety of some sort (not necessary for HD) The XS tritium sights are 'da bomb' for Rem rifle sights and just might be better than ghost rings!;)
Now I guess those tricky Knox stocks that can be shortened for a short LOP are OK, but I prefer the short Hogue.:p
 
I read alot of good suggestions, but what you really need is to talk with a good gunsmith who specializes in building tactical shotguns.
 
And don't get a Tacstar sidesaddle. Get a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle. They are a few dollars more and are made from aircraft aluminum with a life time warranty.
 
Personally, I don't see the need for a barrel clamp. Although my 870 is presently fitted with a Remington factory magazine extension, which uses a barrel clamp, I have experience with the Scattergun Technologies +2 extension. The Scatterguns extension mounts securely to the magazine tube and a barrel clamp is is unnecessary. Plus it's something else you need to remove when you want clean the magazine tube or remove the barrel.
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Shawn,

For anything other than a safe queen, a barrel clamp on a magazine extension more than two rounds is definitely needed. And if you whack the magazine extension on the safe door getting the shotgun out, you might wish you'd put a barrel clamp on the safe queen too.

Look at the thickness of the metal in the magazine tube where the extension attaches. See how thin it is? THAT'S where the problem lies- NOT in the sturdiness of the magazine extension. A magazine extension is essentially a big ol' lever attached to the magazine cap, and it doesn't take a lot of stress for that leverage to come into play and do some serious damage to the magazine tube.

It might not happen to you, but I know people who have had unpleasant surprises due to unsecured magazine extensions. I don't take chances with it, and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to either.

lpl/nc
 
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