Tactical differences split gun advocates

molonlabe

New member
This is a good example of gun owners not working together. MSI http://www.marylandshallissue.org is made up of dedicated people but this barb throwing will just lead to meltdown of gunowners rights in Maryland. I cant beleive either party wants this.

http://www.gazette.net/200510/weekend/a_section/264656-1.html
by Steven T. Dennis
Staff Writer
Mar. 11, 2005


ANNAPOLIS -- A split over lobbying tactics is roiling the gun rights community, with activist Jim Purtilo fearing that efforts by rivals to push hard for a politically explosive and doomed right-to-carry bill will backfire on plans to repeal the state's ballistic fingerprinting law.

Purtilo, publisher of the newsletter Tripwire, has set up a Web site, www.squirreltalk.net, mocking gun advocates who are pushing this year's right-to-carry legislation as politically naive.

"The only reason to advance this again is political grandstanding and big egos, and we'd rather measure our successes by real gains won, not by how many battles we gloriously lose for the right reason," Purtilo said.

But Donald Hoffman of Maryland Shall Issue, a Libertytown group backing the right-to-carry bill, blasts Purtilo, saying that they need to keep the pressure on if they are ever going to pass it.

"No war has ever been won fighting a defensive action," Hoffman said, holding a copy of John R. Lott Jr.'s "More Guns, Less Crime" outside the House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday. "We need to let the anti-gun people know we're here and we're kicking butt."

Hoffman and a group of pro-gun folks sported stickers saying, "Maryland Gun Owners Vote" with "Remember Cas Taylor" in fine print. Gun advocates played a major role in defeating the former House speaker in 2002 after he ushered through ballistic fingerprinting and the trigger lock law.

Hoffman said Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. (R) would prefer to deal with issues such as right-to-carry after the 2006 election, but gun owners do not know if he will be re-elected.

"He's afraid of any gun bill reaching his desk because he's afraid of pissing anybody off," Hoffman said, but "he needs us to be out there working for him."

Although they like Ehrlich, Hoffman said, his group would like to see more tangible pro-gun legislation.

"We don't want to cause him any pain, but we have to do what we have to do," he said. "We need to let them know that we're alive and kicking."

But Purtilo said the gun community needs to "show some political maturity" and not whack lawmakers on a bill that has no hope of passing this year if they want to win on the ballistic fingerprinting bill.

Purtilo points to Del. Donald H. Dwyer Jr.'s aborted attempt to petition the gay marriage ban to the House floor, which prompted House Speaker Michael E. Busch's subsequent threat to nuke all Republican legislation.

Dwyer (R-Dist. 31) of Glen Burnie also is the sponsor of the right-to-carry bill, which would make it easier for Marylanders to get permits to carry handguns because they no longer would have to prove to the State Police that they have "a good and substantial reason" to do so.

Purtilo said that expending energy on a fruitless battle over the right-to-carry legislation could harm the pro-gun advocates in the long term.

"Our people, once they realize their time has been wasted on something useless, they tend to go away and not come back," he said. "There is nothing that would be better for promoting the right to carry next year than to repeal [fingerprinting] this year."

Putting in right-to-carry bills year after year also trains the legislature to defeat them year after year, which is counterproductive, Purtilo said.

The gun community already won a victory because Ehrlich has eliminated funding for the ballistic fingerprinting program, which has not successfully caught any criminals, but gun manufacturers must still provide test shell casings to the state. As a result, many guns are not available in Maryland, limiting the choices for gun buyers, Purtilo said.

The success of the repeal would have a national impact, he said, given Maryland's status as the first state to institute the program.

"Other states that have been looking at this are watching Maryland. Either this form of gun control gets legs and goes nationally, or it gets put to rest," Purtilo said.

But Hoffman said he is not putting his energy into the repeal.

"It's dead," he said. "The governor's already defunded it."

fixed msi link
 
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You have to remember, this is Maryland, Kalifornica East.
And concerning firearms, whether in Maryland or timbucktoo, everybody's an X-PURT.

Jungle Work
 
One thing I've learned is that in Politics you have to accept that no one is going to agree with you 100% and find the people who are closest to your beliefs to ally yourself with.

I support the NRA because they are fighting for my basic rights. I don't actually agree with every position and every action they take, but they are the strongest voice on my side and American politics are not about "intelligent compromises." It's about taking extreme positions, fighting it out tooth and nail, and hoping in the end what ends up happening is somewhere in the middle.

It's in anti-gun states where we need the most unity. I hope they figure out the best approach.
 
You know I spent all day Sunday trying to reach a middle ground with both groups. (Hell you think I was negotiating the Palestine Israel peace accords) Jim is standing firm and MSI basically says they have no leaders so they are going to ignore the situation. So what we have is a standoff where Maryland gun owners lose. I’m afraid this meltdown will ultimately lead to loss of gun rights in Maryland.

Rest of the country take note.


BTW fixed the msi link
 
This is a shame. Once the groups start to argue, they start to self-destruct. I can only hope that this will iron itself out and not hinder our fight for AWB or CCW. But I'm afraid that I can see this getting worse before it get's better. Which in return will result in some backtracking.

My biggest concern is if the legislators get a hold of this it will halt any fence setters who might have been coming to our side on the issue. They will most defiantly have to ask themselvs why should I put my career on the line with my voters when those themselves don't believe in what they are fighting for.

I feel that the best thing that anyone could do right now is to let feelings go and work together. Jim will have to accept that not everyone is going to see things his way. (that is life). Jim could not have brought this out at a worse time, just before they vote on any of the gun bills (AWB, Ballistic FP, CCW) for all we know we might just loose it all. Then all of Jim's work in the past will have meant nothing.

Jim should have Let this go and tried to work this out with MSI after the session was over. I feel that this has done a number on the fight for Maryland Gun Rights.

The last couple of years I have seen more people coming out to fight the fight, Trip wire had a lot to do with that and so did MSI. I can see that with all this BS and petty politics going on with in, that this will bring a quick halt to new gun owners wanting to get involved. No one wants to get into a middle of a mess if they don't have to.

Take care Erik
 
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I'm not going to comment too much as I'm up to my (rather considerably highly placed) neck in this mess. I thought that I could put a stop to that mudslinging website, but I was aparently mistaken in believing that it would come to pass.

Anyway, kudos to MSI and the other gun rights groups who are sticking to their principles and focusing on the issues rather than the people.
 
(Hell you think I was negotiating the Palestine Israel peace accords)
You might have an easier time doing that. I'm saddened but not surprised at the outcome of Norton and molonlabe's efforts.

I have only been involved in MD gun rights for about 6 years, however the infighting among many of the groups has been there as long as I've been involved. In many cases it's because of a dispute such as this, a personality conflict or just the approach on how to handle an issue they both agree on. Phil Lee of MCDL wrote an interesting E-mail (I think, or it was on one of his WEB sites) theorizing that disagreements like this are due in a large part to the nature of volunteer organizations. Having done some free professional work for volunteer groups, I agree.

I can follow Purtilo's reasoning, but see no purpose in the attacks, unless he feels his 'power' is being threatened. He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but Tripwire has gotten my last dollar. If it's any consolation he went after Carmen Amedori, a staunch supporter of 2A, for reasons I don't remember.

Lott's book "More Guns Less Crime" lists MD gun ownership at 22% of adults and one million people in 1988. If we could get 5% of those to do something there would be few bad gun laws in the state.

Apathy and infighting are what's gonna do us in.

There is a lot of talent and energy in the different groups. Too bad it can't be chanelled in a constructive organized effort.

Thanks for the work molonlabe and Norton.
 
kinda telling what automatically inserted google ads match up with www.squirreltalk.net

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WHOA! Deja Vu! We have to remember that politics isn't about fighting it is about theater. A good political battle can put professional wrestling to shame and there is a major opportunity here.

I wonder if there is potential for the more 'moderate' faction using this to the advantage RKBA? "We can save all you helpless people from the "bad" radical RKBA crowd if you just help us out."

Back in the 1960's Black civil rights scored a major victory and the way it happened was by amplifying just such splits. Does anyone recall the factions which urged what might be euphanistically called "radical" action and how Martin Luther King drew most of the middle of the road people and political heavies into the struggle by promising an era of peaceful compromise?
 
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