Swiss k31

sig220mwxxxx

New member
My k31 is very accurate with both factory ammunition and stuff that I handload for it. What I wonder though is that with the Swiss being such riflemen why the heck they didn't put a good aperture sight on it? Anyone out there ever heard why? Plus have any of you that have one put one on yours?
 
I'd guess that since Swiss goverment thought that their soilders could shoot Germans or others at 1000 or more meters,
They don't need no peep sights. But, somewhere in the 50's to 60's the Swiss gov started allowing (purchased individually not issued)gov and approved aftermarket sights. Swiss sights were and are expensive.
There is a newer American company-SwissProducts inc. Their items are only available through Grafs and Brownells They are making arguabaly the best sight on the market. I've the Swiss Swiss and the American Swiss both. I paid about $200 for a used W-FBern over a decade ago maybe two. Even with K31 prices on the rise, any diopter will probably be more costly than your rifle. There are chinese copies of dubious quality.Shop check be careful pay the money.Best
 
Forgot to mention no tap no drill. Easy transfer from rifle to rifle. Easy on, easy off, rifle restored. Look, no mars ma.
 
"...the Swiss being such riflemen..." They weren't, but that has nothing to do with what a government is willing to pay for. Or what staid military procurement types thing is necessary. That Mauser style sight is what was used by nearly every European army of the time. Don't think the design/shape of the receiver is conducive to a peep anyway.
 
What I wonder though is that with the Swiss being such riflemen why the heck they didn't put a good aperture sight on it?


I believe the Swiss were more of rifleman than the US Army, I read the Army Ordnance Magazine back to the 1920's and the US sent rifle teams over to compete against the Swiss. The Swiss did well. Issue Schmidt Rubin rifles are very accurate, in my opinion, more accurate than the issue 03 Springfield.

When you look at contemporary military rifles, very few had a windage gage. This is still true today. The 03 Springfield had a windage with 4 MOA marks, which made adjustments between the 4 MOA marks difficult to estimate. Again, in my opinion, what you see is pragmatism by the military department. Marksmanship takes years to learn, it is a skill. No military today spends the money to train all of their troops to a high level of marksmanship. Less than five percent of the current US Army are trained to an expert level of marksmanship:


20 July 2015
Military leaders question rush to arm soldiers after Chattanooga
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27952513.html

“They’re not expert marksmen,” Stimson said. “They don’t have the annual requirement to qualify on a shooting range like a (Navy) SEAL would or a Green Beret or a Marine.”

Of the five military services, only the Marine Corps requires every member to qualify as a rifleman, in part because Marines provide security at U.S. embassies and other American facilities around the world.

The other four services provide only basic weapons training to most of their members, providing combat-level training only to those who are headed to war zones.

In the Army, by far the largest service, only 5 percent of soldiers obtain an expert badge, the highest rating. For the rest, their jobs don’t require such high proficiency or they lack the necessary skills.

I expect this attitude is typical of Armies throughout the world and is the average attitude through out history. Militaries are not going to spend the time, effort, and money training their troops to a high level of marksmanship. Therefore, they won't spend money on expensive, complicated, and easy to get out of order rear sights. The rifle is zero'd at the factory and that is good enough for the infantry man. The foot soldier is not expected to zero his rifle, in fact, the British put a special screw on the front sight of their No 4 rifles to prevent anyone but the factory or a Armorer from adjusting the weapon for windage.

What you see with the Swiss experience is that the gun designers and manufacturer's came up with an inherently accurate rifle, but the powers that be decided not to spend extra money for an adjustable rear sight, due to their low expectations of marksmanship for the general population of Swiss troops.

Other nations were quite happy to issue service rifles that were less accurate than the Schmidt Rubin rifles, and they did not issue windage adjustable rear sights either.
 
FWIW, the windage marks on the M1905 sight for the M1903 Springfield are in infantry mils, which works out to about 3.44 Minutes of Angle, or about 3.5 inches at 100 yards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil

IMHO, the M1905 sight was the absolutely worst sight ever put on a military rifle. It was fragile, had few firm adjustments and five (yes, 5) aiming points; apertures and notches were tiny, elevation numbers (in yards) hard to read, and the whole mess was in the wrong place. It was a sight designed by target shooters for target shooting, and that only in bright light and perfect weather. And it automatically adjusted for bullet drift at long range, an oddity even in a day when "volley" fire was practiced against long range area targets.

Jim
 
What you see with the Swiss experience is that the gun designers and manufacturer's came up with an inherently accurate rifle, but the powers that be decided not to spend extra money for an adjustable rear sight, due to their low expectations of marksmanship for the general population of Swiss troops.

I disagree with the "low expectations" part as being the reasoning.

Not everyone agrees with the American ideal of an easily adjustable sight (for both windage and elevation) on a combat rifle. Likewise, not everyone is firmly wedded to the idea of a peep sight on a combat rifle, either.

Some nation's designers even felt easy to operate and conveniently located safeties were not needed or even desirable features, as well.

I don't think its ever been about "well since most can't shoot well, we won't bother with refinements". Of course, I don't have their cost/benefit analysis, so I might be wrong...;)
 
open and reciever sights both have advantages and disadvantages, i have wished for a open sight in low light conditions and when very fast close shots are needed and have wished for a reciever sight at longer range shots and more percise shots when time allowed. one of the US krag rifle had a sight i think it the modle 1902 that had a open sight blade and a peep blade sight the could be pushed up that was attached to the blade. the peep hole was way to small for me. eastbank.
 
open and reciever sights both have advantages and disadvantages, i have wished for a open sight in low light conditions and when very fast close shots are needed and have wished for a reciever sight at longer range shots and more percise shots when time allowed. one of the US krag rifle had a sight i think it the modle 1902 that had a open sight blade and a peep blade sight the could be pushed up that was attached to the blade. the peep hole was way to small for me. eastbank.

Check out the HK G3 sight.

It has four settings, three diopter apertures and one open V-notch for anything closer than 100m.
 
Back
Top