Swedish Mauser M96/38 Carbine???
- Thread starter Dogger
- Start date
Price is on the high side but not unreasonable if: The bore is truely like new, crown is good, rifle headspaces excellently, trigger pull is as good a a Mauser gets, all numbers are matching and the rifle is in almost like new condition. For $200 I would expect a really good one.
M96/38 is an older (Pre 1938) rifle that has been cut down to the spec. adopted in 1938. Most of these older rifes are not really in top shape, especially in regards to the bore. For $200, I would rather have a true M38 with turned down bolt and probably better condition.
The M96/38 might have a nicer stock though: they stopped using walnut in any quantity in 1914.
M96/38 is an older (Pre 1938) rifle that has been cut down to the spec. adopted in 1938. Most of these older rifes are not really in top shape, especially in regards to the bore. For $200, I would rather have a true M38 with turned down bolt and probably better condition.
The M96/38 might have a nicer stock though: they stopped using walnut in any quantity in 1914.
I agree with the other poster that condition does dictate the price, but I'll add that the retail prices on the Swedes has almost doubled here in the Northeast due to lack of availibility. A 96/38 Swedish Mauser with all matching numbers and a bore condition of "1" [check the marking disk on the stock] is probably worth more than that - provided that the rest of the rifle is in good/very good+ shape too.
A true Model "96/38" will have a straight bolt, like the original Model 96 & the barrel is about 24" long (23.6" on the Model 38 with the turned-down bolt, made from 1941 to 1944). Most Swede's will show minor to major handling nicks, marks or dents on the wood stocks, but the barrels are usually very good. IMHO a Swede barrel graded as "3" on the stock disk, which would typically mean "scheduled for replacement", is better than your average Mauser barrel. The Swedish steel has a high copper content, so parts like the bolt, follower and butt plate which were left "in the white" will usually show very little corrosion, if any.
Most 96/38's will not have all matching numbers, since the parts got all mixed around when the 96's were in process of being converted to the shorter Model 38 "Short Rifle" configuration. Compare prices by looking at the Samco website at "www.samcoglobal.com".
The 6.5 Swede is an exceptionally accurate cartridge, yet the mild recoil hides its true potential as a game-getter. It is an excellent deer & antelope round. Some noted firearm authorities have commented that the long slender bullets have a high sectional density, making the 140 grain Swede bullet the equivalent of a 220 grain .30 caliber in terms of penetration and performance.
Hard to believe? Perhaps -- but the 10,000+ moose harvested annually in Scandinavia by this classic 100-year-old cartridge don't seem to complain much about its ballistics on paper. Dead is dead, and with careful shot placement and stalking within 200 meters, most moose taken are one-shot kills.
The 6.5 Swede is an excellent handloading cartridge and the Model 96/38 is a lot handier at the bench or in the woods than the longer Model 96. Most shooters buy
one intending to eventually sporterize it, but many never do and they hunt with them just as they were originally made.
Do a search on Swedish Mausers on the net as there are some great didicated sites out there for these fine rifles!
Tight groups!
[This message has been edited by Lefty (edited April 26, 2000).]
A true Model "96/38" will have a straight bolt, like the original Model 96 & the barrel is about 24" long (23.6" on the Model 38 with the turned-down bolt, made from 1941 to 1944). Most Swede's will show minor to major handling nicks, marks or dents on the wood stocks, but the barrels are usually very good. IMHO a Swede barrel graded as "3" on the stock disk, which would typically mean "scheduled for replacement", is better than your average Mauser barrel. The Swedish steel has a high copper content, so parts like the bolt, follower and butt plate which were left "in the white" will usually show very little corrosion, if any.
Most 96/38's will not have all matching numbers, since the parts got all mixed around when the 96's were in process of being converted to the shorter Model 38 "Short Rifle" configuration. Compare prices by looking at the Samco website at "www.samcoglobal.com".
The 6.5 Swede is an exceptionally accurate cartridge, yet the mild recoil hides its true potential as a game-getter. It is an excellent deer & antelope round. Some noted firearm authorities have commented that the long slender bullets have a high sectional density, making the 140 grain Swede bullet the equivalent of a 220 grain .30 caliber in terms of penetration and performance.
Hard to believe? Perhaps -- but the 10,000+ moose harvested annually in Scandinavia by this classic 100-year-old cartridge don't seem to complain much about its ballistics on paper. Dead is dead, and with careful shot placement and stalking within 200 meters, most moose taken are one-shot kills.
The 6.5 Swede is an excellent handloading cartridge and the Model 96/38 is a lot handier at the bench or in the woods than the longer Model 96. Most shooters buy
one intending to eventually sporterize it, but many never do and they hunt with them just as they were originally made.
Do a search on Swedish Mausers on the net as there are some great didicated sites out there for these fine rifles!
Tight groups!
[This message has been edited by Lefty (edited April 26, 2000).]
Thanks for the posts. I went and took a look at the rifle. It has a turned down bolt, appears to have been manufactured in 1942, and has a bore condition of "2" on the stock disk. The barrel diameter was marked at 6.53. The rifle has not been cleaned and the bore was too dirty to tell if there was any corrosion or rust. The salesman said the stock was birch -- as I am not an expert on wood I do not know. It certainly did not look like a rifle in its prime -- as you mentioned the stock has numerous dents and bumps and is darkened with age. They are asking $199 for it and it is the only one in the store, surrounded by about 30 Mausers of other makes and models.
Went for a second look, I believe this rifle is the M38 and was manufactured at the Husqvarna plant in 1942. Inspector initials GB. The barrel is the threaded version. Serial numbers of the bolt and receiver match. The stock is aged and has numerous dings and dents. Seems to be some corrosion on the butt plate at the top, no corrosion anywhere else. I think that $199 might be too high a price, given the relatively recent manufature and the condition of the rifle. Any thoughts? Thanks
Its probably a good deal.
Samco is selling the 96/38 with straight bolts for about $160, but you have added cost for FFL and shipping & taxes.
Samco is selling M38's with bent bolts at about $350 and calling them cavalry models. If this is true (Cavalry), its something I don't know about. I thought all Husqvarna M38's had bent bolts.
See: www.samcoglobal.com
Condition #2 means some wear or rust, but still OK. #1 was the best, of course. As noted in a post above, the Swedes were picky on this, so it should shoot well if all else is good and nothing more has deteriorated since the arsenal inspection.
6.53 is the true bore diameter. This is OK, don't worry about it. It is just a hair less than the spec. bore of 6.55. The Swedes were picky about this also.
I would not worry too much about the stock. The wood is beech, not birch. It is very light colored and is stained to make it darker. If you refinish it or iron it, you will probably loose the stain and wind up with a "blond" stock. You will need to restain it if you want it dark again. Worry about this later.
Its very good that it is all matching. This is something that most people want in one of these rifles.
Samco is selling the 96/38 with straight bolts for about $160, but you have added cost for FFL and shipping & taxes.
Samco is selling M38's with bent bolts at about $350 and calling them cavalry models. If this is true (Cavalry), its something I don't know about. I thought all Husqvarna M38's had bent bolts.
See: www.samcoglobal.com
Condition #2 means some wear or rust, but still OK. #1 was the best, of course. As noted in a post above, the Swedes were picky on this, so it should shoot well if all else is good and nothing more has deteriorated since the arsenal inspection.
6.53 is the true bore diameter. This is OK, don't worry about it. It is just a hair less than the spec. bore of 6.55. The Swedes were picky about this also.
I would not worry too much about the stock. The wood is beech, not birch. It is very light colored and is stained to make it darker. If you refinish it or iron it, you will probably loose the stain and wind up with a "blond" stock. You will need to restain it if you want it dark again. Worry about this later.
Its very good that it is all matching. This is something that most people want in one of these rifles.
Price is more a matter of what the buyer is willing to pay.
I have a Swedish M38. It was the first rifle that I bought. With either military surplus or Federal classic ammo the gun shoots 1.5" for me off the bench with the factory iron sights @ 100 yards.
With the same ammo and gun my buddy who is a gunsmith, and has MUCH better eyes than myself, can shoot 1.25" groups at 100 yards.
I fight with myself every couple of months about putting an Ashley site on it and a synthetic stock (or maybe twisting my uncle's arm, who is a gunsmith into, sportorizing the stock for me).
As is the gun will put venison or elk into the fridge every year out to 200 yards if the shooter is up to the task.
I am certain with load development or premium ammo (Federal makes a match load for the 6.5x55 that matches the trajetory of their 308 match load with the 168 Sierra, Fed also has a HE energy load for the 6.5x55 with a 140 grain Trophy Boned Bear claw bullet).
Put it this way the Swede was my first rifle and the Steyr Scout was the second rifle I bought. The only real advantage the Scout has is that it is shorter and lighter and comes ready from the factory for a scope.
Note: You can probably use standard stripper clips for the 7x57, 308, or 30-06 cartridges for the 6.5x55. If not you can get stripper clips for the 6.5 real easy. I have plenty to spare if anyone is interested in a few of the 6.5x55 stripper clips.
My swede will probably get an Ashley sight and a synthetic stock (to reduce weight) eventually. Other than that I won't touch it except to shoot.
------------------
There can be only one!
I have a Swedish M38. It was the first rifle that I bought. With either military surplus or Federal classic ammo the gun shoots 1.5" for me off the bench with the factory iron sights @ 100 yards.
With the same ammo and gun my buddy who is a gunsmith, and has MUCH better eyes than myself, can shoot 1.25" groups at 100 yards.
I fight with myself every couple of months about putting an Ashley site on it and a synthetic stock (or maybe twisting my uncle's arm, who is a gunsmith into, sportorizing the stock for me).
As is the gun will put venison or elk into the fridge every year out to 200 yards if the shooter is up to the task.
I am certain with load development or premium ammo (Federal makes a match load for the 6.5x55 that matches the trajetory of their 308 match load with the 168 Sierra, Fed also has a HE energy load for the 6.5x55 with a 140 grain Trophy Boned Bear claw bullet).
Put it this way the Swede was my first rifle and the Steyr Scout was the second rifle I bought. The only real advantage the Scout has is that it is shorter and lighter and comes ready from the factory for a scope.
Note: You can probably use standard stripper clips for the 7x57, 308, or 30-06 cartridges for the 6.5x55. If not you can get stripper clips for the 6.5 real easy. I have plenty to spare if anyone is interested in a few of the 6.5x55 stripper clips.
My swede will probably get an Ashley sight and a synthetic stock (to reduce weight) eventually. Other than that I won't touch it except to shoot.
------------------
There can be only one!
Thanks for the posts. Two questions:
I didn't pay close attention to the rear sight... do you adjust windage and elevation with the rear sight?
Also, have heard that the brass in US made 6.5x55 ammo is slightly out of spec to what the Swedes intended, and hence accuracy will suffer and there is enough deformation of US made brass to render it unsuitable for reloading. Is this true? Seems like this is not the case in Glamdring's experience. Appreciate your comments...
I didn't pay close attention to the rear sight... do you adjust windage and elevation with the rear sight?
Also, have heard that the brass in US made 6.5x55 ammo is slightly out of spec to what the Swedes intended, and hence accuracy will suffer and there is enough deformation of US made brass to render it unsuitable for reloading. Is this true? Seems like this is not the case in Glamdring's experience. Appreciate your comments...
Dogger:
The rear sight does elevation - you'll need to drift the front sight for windage. BTW - you'll need to replace the front sight and buy a higher one, as the Swede sights were regulated for the 170 or so grain ball ammo.
My brother and I got 4 different Swedes to print sub-MOA using Hornady & Sierra 120 & 140gr spitzer bullets. We also used new Winchester empty brass from Midway and had no problems - these rifles WANT to shoot!
I'll email my bro and get from him his list of websites specific to the Swede rifle. These also list where you can get the new front sight (about $10).
Tight groups!
The rear sight does elevation - you'll need to drift the front sight for windage. BTW - you'll need to replace the front sight and buy a higher one, as the Swede sights were regulated for the 170 or so grain ball ammo.
My brother and I got 4 different Swedes to print sub-MOA using Hornady & Sierra 120 & 140gr spitzer bullets. We also used new Winchester empty brass from Midway and had no problems - these rifles WANT to shoot!
I'll email my bro and get from him his list of websites specific to the Swede rifle. These also list where you can get the new front sight (about $10).
Tight groups!
I bought the Swede M38 Carbine today. 
Wouldn't you know it though, I waited for an hour and the BATF approval still had not come in... this never happens in Manassas but I bought the rifle in Alexandria so perhaps the proximity to DC causes the problem.
So I left in disgust for all the politicians who inconvenience honest citizens with their paperwork checks...
Bought some Federal 139 (or was it 140?) grain Classic ammo and some PMC 144(?)grain target ammo...
Once I get the rifle to the range I will let you know how it shoots. Thanks for all the advice.
Wouldn't you know it though, I waited for an hour and the BATF approval still had not come in... this never happens in Manassas but I bought the rifle in Alexandria so perhaps the proximity to DC causes the problem. So I left in disgust for all the politicians who inconvenience honest citizens with their paperwork checks...
Bought some Federal 139 (or was it 140?) grain Classic ammo and some PMC 144(?)grain target ammo...
Once I get the rifle to the range I will let you know how it shoots. Thanks for all the advice.
Question: is PMC factory target ammo, 144 grain spitzer rated at 2650fps too hot for this rifle? I saw a post on a website (data several years old I believe) that said there was a hot load from PMC that would damage a surplus Mauser... Factory loads from Remington and Federal appear to be in the range of 2550-2600 fps for 139 grain loads.
Thanks
Thanks
Finally got the M38 Swede to the NRA range. SWEET! This rifle is a honey to shoot. The iron sights are poor, at least for my eyes. At 50 yards with the iron sights I could shoot 1.5 inch groups, but they were six inches high and four inches to the left. At 25 yards I was shooting more to the center of the bull, but had a wider spread. Go figure. All in all, a real pleasure to fire this rifle. But, unless I get some new eyeballs or figure a better sighting system the deer in the woods are gonna keep walking.
Cavalry thing is BS. A guy from Sweden (Anders, former Swede army Sgt.)) on another board has mentioned the 94 carbine is the only cavalry issue rifle issued by Sweden. The 96/38 should be better than the 38 b/c of superior finish procedures before WWII (when Sweden was knocking out rifles to fight off the Wehrmacht, should they look for Swedish iron resources).