swapping calibers trouble

S

south.texas.dead.I

New member
I got a sig 226 and about 2 months ago I got a .22 kit for it and been shooting it a lot, Ive gotten pretty good with it probably 2" groups at 20 yards or so, but notice that when i switch to the .40 (standard slide) the accuracy drops drastically. I sneek some dud reloads into the mix and notice im jerking, any tricks to fix this? I tend to try to grip the pistol real tight when im shooting 40 and think this is producing some jerking cause when i relax it i gain a bit of accuracy but the pistol jumps a lot more, i feel like its not right either. maybe i just dont know how snappy the 40 is?
 
I don't think it would be 100% possible to diagnose your woes without being there to actually see what's going on.

However, yes, it is possible to over muscle a firearm, and for that also to badly influence your trigger pull and a whole lot of other things. How do things work out when shooting from a supported rest/bench?

Here's a couple of tips to start out with that could certainly help:

1. Square up on your backstop, present the pistol, double check that your shot will go into the berm/backstop, now watch the pistol as the shot breaks. Watch the hammer fall, watch the recoil, watch the pistol recover back to it's original position. This helps a lot of shooters, because believe it or not, most folks have never watched this aspect. And seeing the firing process as it unfolds in your hands assures your mind that what is going on is perfectly normal and will help eliminate involuntary flinches or other bad habits. Do this a number of times if needed.

2. Trigger. You can pull a trigger both too fast and too slow- find your sweet speed. Too fast and you can get what you describe, and too slow you can also get the results you describe. Tip: Load, chamber, and present your firearm to fire. Breathe in, 3/4 out, hold breath, pull the trigger (some folks say squeeze, press, pull- screw semantics- just make the thing actuates in a controlled manner). Now, as the shot breaks, keep pressure on the trigger and do not release until your sights are back on target (recover). Once back on target, slowly ease pressure off of the trigger until you feel the sear reset (that's the click) try to count "one thouseand one, one thouseand two" until you get to the sear reset. DO NOT ever take your finger completely off of the trigger until you complete your firing string. I dont know why this works, but I've been teaching enough years now to know there is credibility to this drill.

The objective is to create the most stable platform possible from which to discharge the firearm, the only movement should be isolated to only the finger which rests upon the trigger. Every other movement (voluntary or not) influences the shot. Speaking of stability- Where is your support hand while all of this is going on? Do you use the push-pull method? I like that one the best for new and recovering shooters. Grip the pistol with the strong hand (normal shooting hand) and don't try to muscle it to death. Then take your support hand and form a cup, now wrap that cup around/over your strong hand fingers. Now push with your strong hand and pull rearward with the support hand. This creates isometric tension and forms a good solid base from which to shoot.

Try these pointers for a while and see if that helps narrow down any further woes you may be experiencing. The .40 is a big step up from a .22 and if a person is not accustomed to making the switch- then sometimes the mind can throw obstacles that even some experienced shooters confront and need to work through.
 
I appreciate the advice an will take this to the range next trip, another thing is when the pistol is in da mode i seem to do better than when its in sa mode with the 40. I use the grip the Max Michel talks about in his YouTube videos.


Living another day
To bust another clay
 
Here's my 2 pennies:

You mention "jerking" the trigger and that you used the good ol' "cap and ball" drill (dummy rounds) to identify it.

By jerking do you mean pulling the trigger too quickly/slapping the trigger?

Or do you mean the "flinch" or "pushing the shot" or whatever you call it when your sights dip down because of anticipation of the shot?

If you notice the sights are moving as the hammer goes "click" on a dummy round in anticipation, it's a flinch - or whatever more PC word you choose to label it. That means part of the fix is mental. How can you convince yourself that the explosion going off in front of you isn't worth flinching/bracing for? You can pre-occupy your mind by concentrating on the front sight. Try to see every detail of the front dot - if there were tiny words written across it you'd want to be able to read it. Keep your focus there as you gradually increase the pressure of your trigger finger - but don't concentrate on the trigger finger, just the front sight. And also try to keep your eyes focused on your sight during recoil and until they settle back down again, aimed and ready for your next shot. I like 10-96's description of you as a platform and I think of that word sometimes when I mentally picture the process. You're presenting a straight line between your eyes, the front sight/channel, and the target and you hold it there like a waiter with a silver platter balanced on his arm. You become a machine and the only thing that moves is the trigger finger. Dry fire practice has helped me tremendously with my flinch (but you don't want to dry fire a .22 without snap caps, more likely to damage gun than centerfire).

If it's simply jerking the trigger (shot groups would be low and to the left) then it would help to slow that trigger pull down and look up "compressed surprise break Jeff Cooper" on youtube. He explained it better than I can in that video.

All shooters have to practice to work against both (and other habits) since they can creep back in from time to time.

Just a theory, but I agree in that Single Action mode, it's more tempting for the body/mind to want to control the trigger break since the trigger travels a shorter distance. The body thinks, "I'm going to prepare for the blast by making it happen *now* [pulls trigger too quickly] and I'll brace for that blast/recoil by leaning forward and pushing the gun down right *now*]. In Double Action your trigger finger is already exerting force throughout the long travel and since the trigger pull is so long it's less tempting to force the trigger to break as it would be more obvious.

- as you can see, sometimes I feel like my body has a mind of it's own :D and it's not me :confused:

Happy shooting, wish I had a 22 pistol, I would shoot a WHOLE lot more.
 
dyl said:
Here's my 2 pennies:

You mention "jerking" the trigger and that you used the good ol' "cap and ball" drill (dummy rounds) to identify it.

By jerking do you mean pulling the trigger too quickly/slapping the trigger?

Or do you mean the "flinch" or "pushing the shot" or whatever you call it when your sights dip down because of anticipation of the shot?

If you notice the sights are moving as the hammer goes "click" on a dummy round in anticipation, it's a flinch - or whatever more PC word you choose to label it. That means part of the fix is mental. How can you convince yourself that the explosion going off in front of you isn't worth flinching/bracing for? You can pre-occupy your mind by concentrating on the front sight. Try to see every detail of the front dot - if there were tiny words written across it you'd want to be able to read it. Keep your focus there as you gradually increase the pressure of your trigger finger - but don't concentrate on the trigger finger, just the front sight. And also try to keep your eyes focused on your sight during recoil and until they settle back down again, aimed and ready for your next shot. I like 10-96's description of you as a platform and I think of that word sometimes when I mentally picture the process. You're presenting a straight line between your eyes, the front sight/channel, and the target and you hold it there like a waiter with a silver platter balanced on his arm. You become a machine and the only thing that moves is the trigger finger. Dry fire practice has helped me tremendously with my flinch (but you don't want to dry fire a .22 without snap caps, more likely to damage gun than centerfire).

If it's simply jerking the trigger (shot groups would be low and to the left) then it would help to slow that trigger pull down and look up "compressed surprise break Jeff Cooper" on youtube. He explained it better than I can in that video.

All shooters have to practice to work against both (and other habits) since they can creep back in from time to time.

Just a theory, but I agree in that Single Action mode, it's more tempting for the body/mind to want to control the trigger break since the trigger travels a shorter distance. The body thinks, "I'm going to prepare for the blast by making it happen *now* [pulls trigger too quickly] and I'll brace for that blast/recoil by leaning forward and pushing the gun down right *now*]. In Double Action your trigger finger is already exerting force throughout the long travel and since the trigger pull is so long it's less tempting to force the trigger to break as it would be more obvious.

- as you can see, sometimes I feel like my body has a mind of it's own :D and it's not me :confused:

Happy shooting, wish I had a 22 pistol, I would shoot a WHOLE lot more.
Click to expand...

Although I shoot my .22 a lottt now, I shoot it for roughly the same price as my lead cast .40 rounds


Living another day
To bust another clay
 
Just a theory, but I agree in that Single Action mode, it's more tempting for the body/mind to want to control the trigger break since the trigger travels a shorter distance. The body thinks, "I'm going to prepare for the blast by making it happen *now* [pulls trigger too quickly] and I'll brace for that blast/recoil by leaning forward and pushing the gun down right *now*]. In Double Action your trigger finger is already exerting force throughout the long travel and since the trigger pull is so long it's less tempting to force the trigger to break as it would be more obvious.
Click to expand...

I agree, though of course one can jerk at any type of trigger. It's just more tempting to do with a short SA trigger, which could be what the OP is doing: jerking the trigger while trying to chase a perfect sight picture. We are likely all guilty of it at some point or another. I catch myself doing it from time-to-time. Something that helps cure that is bringing out the .22 and shooting at something I simply can't miss, like a gallon milk jug at 5 yards. Helps me to relax a bit and not worry about scoring a perfect 10 ring hit. Sometimes we can just take ourselves too seriously. Also, remind yourself that no matter how hard you try, the sights are never going to be perfectly still. There will always be some small movement. So sometimes it helps me to intentionally move the gun just a bit, either in a very small circle of in a figure 8 as I squeeze off a shot.
 
South.texas dead eye:

When I shot on several Marine Corps rifle and pistol teams I used the following method to develope my grip, my trigger finger placement, my sight alignment and my trigger control. I dry fired against a blank white wall with no target on it. I experimented with trigger finger placement, and grip. Because the eye can only focus on one point at a time I don't pay any attention to the picture book renditiion of sight picture. ( the target and the sights aligned in perfect focus) Some team shooters focus their eyes on the front sight, some on the rear sight. Then when you align your sights the target will blurr. When I'm dry firing I attempt to get the trigger to release without disturbing the sights. If the sights are aligned when the trigger releases the pistol can be moving the diameter of the bullseye and you will get a hit in the black. Think about it this way, the target will be in the same place before the shot, during the shot, and after the shot. The only thing that moves is the sights. Focus on them!

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
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