Swapping bullets

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fisherman66

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Ive collected Lee Classic loaders for most calibers I shot, but they are mostly an emergency backup plan. I have not however handloaded/reloaded a single cartridge. So please pardon me if this is a dangerous or stupid question. I have a couple falling blocks in 7x57 and 7x57R. Factory ammo is pretty sparse and I can’t find any ballistic tips any more (Hornday did as recently as a decade ago). I’d like to pull a soft point and replace it with a ballistic tip of a very close weight for varmint/coyote hunting. Is this viable, or a fool’s way to blow up an expensive rifle and maybe my face at the same time?
 
If you loaded a bullet of the same or lower weight, it wouldn't be unsafe. Commercial 7x57 ammo is loaded conservatively due to many old Mausers still kicking around.

That said, it will be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you haven't done any reloading before. Hornady makes a 7mm 120 gr V-Max for varmints, and they are in stock at Powder Valley. Hornady sells an online version of their load manual. Just bite the bullet ;) and load some. Less hassle, and the chance for much better perfomance.
 
First a clarification of terms. Ballistic Tip is a Nosler trade name, so whatever Hornady made that you are thinking of would have had some other name. Hornady has V-max, SST, and Interlock bullets in 7mm that you could use. Nosler also makes a number of 7mm Ballistic Tip bullet weights, but Midway is out of all but one weight, and I don't know what their supply situation is.

As far as bullet substitution goes, it's an old practice. It started years ago when Sierra bullets were found superior in precision to what came out of the military arsenals. The standard story was that some military marksmen (or, more likely, their armorers) shooting 300m International match competition in the Pan Am games in Mexico pulled the 173-grain bullets from their issued M118 ammo and put Sierra 168-grain MatchKings in and got better results. Thereafter, all ammo made by bullet substitution has been referred to as "Mexican Match." I've also read that the whole story is a fabrication because the years the substitution method was first noted didn't match with any year the games were held in Mexico.

Anyway, the bottom line is, You can substitute a bullet of the same weight or a bit less if it has the same construction. That is, a jacketed bullet with a lead core (aka, a cup and core bullet) for another jacketed bullet with a lead core. Do not try to substitute a solid copper bullet for a cup and core bullet, as it will raise pressure. You can substitute a copper jacketed cup and core bullet for a copper-plated steel jacketed cup and core bullet, which I have done, but I have not tested the reverse, and while I don't expect an issue with it, I can't say I know it is alright to do unless I have tried it and taken a pressure measurement.
 
I appreciate the response from both respondents. UncleNick, you’re right about the plastic tips and my Kleenex-ization of their branding. In a world where the details really matter I understand the clarification.

I don’t shoot much. I’m more of a collector, but I’m getting into some obscure and potentially obsolete chamberings. To me, a rifle without the ability to load a round isn’t really a rifle anymore.

I’ve been toying with getting into handloading just to preserve my ability to feed these obscure chambers. I’m not trying to save money, tailor my ballistics or sharpen my groups. Another reason is my theory that taxes on loaded ammunition will increase logarithmically to suppress the firearms market instead of directly attacking the ability to purchase firearms. I believe the opening salvo just happened in CA.

As a newbie to handloading I’m finding all the information overwhelming. I’ve purchased a couple books. At this point I’m unsure about compatibility between brands. I have collected Lee equipment over the years. Mostly the most basic kits that require the use of a mallet. The less common rounds do not have kits - 7x57R for instance. I’ll keep reading and trying to piece together the mechanics. Again, I appreciate the help.
 
I’d like to pull a soft point and replace it with a ballistic tip of a very close weight for varmint/coyote hunting.
Click to expand...

Certainly possible, but I have to ask, why???

First, you're talking about shooting from old single shot rifles, which suggest iron sights, and ranges of 300yds or under, right??

The only bit difference in the bullet tips is going to be in the ballistic coefficient of the bullets, and its effect on trajectory, so one thing you need to look at is, is there going to be a practical different in the drop/wind drift at the ranges you expect to shoot?

More important is bullet construction for expansion. 7mm Mauser isn't a widely used varmint round, most bullets will be built for controlled expansion on deer size game, and smaller, lighter built animals seldom offer the resistance needed for proper expansion. In other words, a bullet made to open up as it goes through a deer might just zip through a coyote without expanding at all.

For best results on varmints/coyotes you want a lightly constructed varmint bullet made to expand at the velocity it will be moving, fired from your rifle with your loads, when it hits the varmint.

Call the bullet makers you are considering using, and chat with their folks, explain what you want to do, and see what they recommend you use. Even if they don't make what you are looking for, all you're out is the time and cost of the call.

Also, be careful choosing your load data. You don't want to use data developed in strong modern rifles. Data for the old Mausers is what you should use in your falling blocks. (Unless your falling blocks are Rugers :D)

Good luck
Be safe!
 
Amp44, A nice little 1-6 power sits in claw mounts, but I wouldn’t expect to shoot much farther than a couple hundred yards. Maybe I’ve had the wrong assumption, but I am under the impression that these plastic spritzer tips and thinner jackets are responsible for a more violent opening of the bullet.

You’re right about the low pressure. The rifle is a pre war German piece. I do have a #1 in 7x57 (no rim), so the information could apply to both, but not the pressure.

Thanks
 
Maybe I’ve had the wrong assumption, but I am under the impression that these plastic spritzer tips and thinner jackets are responsible for a more violent opening of the bullet.
Click to expand...

The thinner jacket is what is responsible (IF the bullet has one), the plastic tip, not so much. From what I understand, there are, or were plastic tipped bullets where the tip was intended to be driven back into the bullet to enhance expansion, but Hornady's weren't one of them.

Also, from what I've heard, the early Hornady plastic tipped bullets in big game weights got a poor reputation because they were made with jackets too thin, (for deer/elk), and opened too soon and too much.

Hornady corrected that a while back. Today, I think you'll find about everything they offer in 7mm is intended for big game shooting and built for that.

Talk to the people who make the bullet(s) you are interested in. Generally all of them are happy to answer questions. Find out the LOWER end of their expansion velocity range. See if you can get that from your rifle(s) and then adjust to see if you still have that a couple hundred yards down range where the critter is.

just got off the phone with a friend of mine, who has checked and he said they told him the current Hornady 120 VMax expansion velocity is 2300-2800fps.

You might be able to reach that bottom end in your old falling blocks, I don't know. Its also possible the current VMAX is just outside the suitable range for what you are going to use, and what you want to do.

Big game bullets usually don't expand on small game size animals, and so poke a bullet size hole all the way through. This does kill, but unless placement is perfect, it won't necessarily "zap them DRT".

I'm sure there is, or was a bullet suitable for what you want, but have no idea if its currently in production, or if so, by whom.

Sounds like an interesting research project.
Good Luck!
 
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