Surplus ammo @!##!@#!

Fisher

New member
Ok guys, this surplus ammo thing is about to drive me crazy. On another post I was reading that South African ammo was causing problems in M1A's. To be more specific it was not ejecting spent casings. Then reading the follow up posts most everyone suggests staying away from the South African ammo for the M1A. Now I was lucky and went with Hirtenberger from the beginning in my M1A and had no problems. I have several of our members here to thank for that help.

I also have a Colt AR-15 and I'm looking for a good surplus ammo to us in it. Most people on the AR boards suggest using the South African (PMP) ammo. In fact several stated that Hirtenberger in the AR caused problems.

You can probably see where I'm going with this by now. One, are there different manufactures of South African or Hirtenberger ammo. Two, why do these two types of ammo work well in one caliber and not in the other.
 
There is PMP, the comerical SA and Denel, the military. They are the same company, but the loads are different. I recently bought 1120 rds of SA surplus from AIM Surplus. I shoot it in my SAR-48 and my M1A NM, both functioned fine (approx. 250 rds each). 2 to 3 MOA accuracy.

If you are looking for .223 ammo, http://www.ammoman.com has a special on Federal 55gr FMJ, get this, $189.00 for 1000rds SHIPPED to your door! 99.00 for 500. Guess who I'm calling on Monday.
 
I've shot about 1,000 rounds of the PMP commercial South African .223 through my ARs. It works fine for me. I recently ordered another 2,0000 rounds from Aim Surplus. It is new, brass cased, reloadable, reliable, and cheap. I think it cost me $115/1,000, plus $15 or $20 per case for shipping.

Doug
 
"South African ammo was causing problems in M1A's."

I would blame the rifle first. Is the chamber really a Military 7.62*51mm chamber or have the dimensions been reduced for accuracy?
 
I've converted from South African manufacture to either Federal or S&B. I have had no problems with either.

Speaking of which, who has the best prices on S&B ammo in .223? Ammoman has some good prices, but he doesn't seem to carry S&B in 55 gr. Thanks!
 
If you reread all the posts you will discover that the rifle in question was having trouble with commercial ammo too.

Springfield Armory says to avoid South African surplus ( I tend to think the stuff they tested was the Hotter M1A3 stuff since they did not specify which they did test, you also have to dig for this little advisory) but they also say do not use reloads, this rule is even on the tag that comes with ever M1A they build. (And how many people violate that little rule)

I also stated, there were two different types of SA .308 surplus that I was aware of
M1A2 and M1A3

That both my M1As functioned fine with both types and that is was only in bolt gun that I had any trouble with the hotter M1A3 ammo. The first time I tried the M1A3 was at a match in a new Built M1A chambered so tight that it barely qualified as having the correct head space. I have never had a fail to extract with any PMP surplus .308 ammo.

Is the PMP ammo any good I would say its in the middle of the pack as far as surplus ammo goes with
Hirtenberger, Lake City, IMI and Radway Green in the top bracket but better than the Indian and Malaysian .308 at the bottom.

the Rhodesians used a lot of it for years before they gave up at the peace table.

The simple fact is any surplus ammo can be suspect. The US Army routinely condemns ammo when the failure rate gets to high. Some ammo is bulk packed loose(especially from Israel which could be IMI, Lake City, Radway Green and others) because they keep so much stored on their ready vehicles and ever so often the collect all the ammo up off these vehicles and dump it in a box and sell it. This ammo has been stored under poor conditions and knocked around quite a bit so it is highly suspect no matter who made it.

All of the PMP ammo .308 surplus I have seen so far has had bright and shiny brass cases, clean copper bullets and were packed in air tight plastic bags which suggests to me that at least they pack and store it well.

Its your choice, but I usually check out my surplus by getting a small quantity from a dealer I have dealt with before and then pull a few down to check the bullet and propellant weights and the condition of the powder then test fire a few ( in both a M1A and a small ring Spanish mauser which is really a pretty picky gun to begin with) If I like it then I go back to that dealer and buy two or three cases from the same lot if possible.

Not all surplus ammo is created the same but just as importantly it hasn’t all been handled and stored the same either, which could be just as important. Most Governments attempt to load all their Military ammo to similar Specs on common caliber’s like 5.56 7.62 and 9mm, It guarantees interchange ability in a wartime situation. So while all ammo isn’t the same quality when its manufactured it should have functioned within the specs for that caliber when it was manufactured. After its been stored who knows.

The whole point of this rant is ----there is no hard and fast rule on Mil Surplus ammo, No matter where it came from, because there are too many variables to account for after its manufacture let alone before.
 
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