surplus 8mm accuracy

P

Popsicle

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Hey guys, I shot my yugo 24-47 today for the first time with some surplus 8mm ammo( unknown manufacturer), and some remington 170 grain factory loads. The surplus ammo shot 1 foot high at 100 yards, extraction was sticky, and the fired cases wouldn't eject, they would just lay on the top of the magazine. The remington loads, however, shot superbly- right on for windage, 2 inches high at 100 yards, no sticky extraction, and no ejection problems. What causes the surplus ammo to shoot so high? Should I discontinue their use? Thanks everyone!

Pat Brophy
 
They are hotter than the Remington ammo. U.S. ammo makers download the 8mm to avoid possible problems with the old Model 1888 rifles and very early 1898 rifles, which have a smaller groove diameter than the later rifles. Yours is the larger diameter, so modern 8mm surplus is OK. A good modern non-corrosive 8mm is Sellier and Bellot, which is available from many gun and ammo dealers and on web sites.

Jim
 
I don't have a Yugo, but I do have a K98. The 8mm ammo I see floating around right now is the Turkish 147 grain that comes in the green bandolier. Even Midway has it. This stuff shoots great in my old warhorse. Right on with the sights, and superbly accurate. I bought about a case and a half of it. All that being said, I own more Milsurp rifles than that. And I generally don't like shooting surplus ammo in them. You don't know what you are getting with surplus ammo most of the time. Is the ammo corosive ? Will it shoot with my sights ? Is it accurate ? Where is it from ? How old is it ? What velocity does it shoot at; was it machine gun ammo or something ? If it shoots great, will I ever be able to get any more ? How would I know if I was buying the same thing later ? .......................
I prefer not to wonder all that stuff just to save a little bit of money. When I shoot, I want to hit something. I want accuracy. This doesn't mean that I expect my K98 to be a target rifle, but, if I shoot at a rock at 200 yards, I would like to know that the rifle is capable of hitting it. I have a MN 91/30 that throws 200 grain Wolf ammo 15 feet from the target at 300 yards. That is unacceptable, and I don't shoot that ammo in that gun anymore. I don't want ammo that will destroy my guns. So, I reload. I know what goes in the case because I put it there. I can work up loads for my rifles that shoot right on with the sights, the loads are non corrosive, and I can always load more.
 
I suspect it's Turk ammo. I've been shooting a lot out of my M-48 Yugo Mauser. It is a bit sticky, but not as bad on mine as on some others. It's also corrosive (!!!), so a good cleanup with bore solvents or very hot water is in order after a day at the range.

Though not as pronounced as your elevation gain, I have noticed that the Turk stuff I use shoots a bit higher than my Swede ammo and even higher than the crappy low-power US stuff. There may be an inch or more difference at 100 yards, though I've never measured it. It's not so much that your Turk is shooting too high, but that the US stuff is shooting too low. Keep in mind your Remington loads are going to be loaded to 8mm"j" levels, not "js" like the European stuff. This is frankly idiotic, as almost nobody is shooting with Model 1888 "J" barrels anymore. I would only worry about it if I had an old Mauser that might not be able to take js pressures, but if that were the case I wouldn't shoot it at all! Anyway, to get to the point the American loads are all going to shoot low, almost in rainbow trajectory, because of this outdated limitation. There's plenty of good, modern ammo from various European ammo companies. Get it as your good stuff, use the Turk for target practice, and forget the US stuff.
 
While it may be true that the surplus is hotter and the U.S. stuff is light ... could it be that the U.S. ammo is faster (maybe because it is lighter?) ... the reason that I ask is that my .308's all shoot the US stuff lower than the NATO loads. Our beloved .308 Win IS hotter than the NATO spec'ed 7.62x51 and the explanation that sounded the best to me does not support the "rainbow arc" theory of low velocity U.S. ammo. The theory was that the hotter ammo gets out of the barrel faster ... before the muzzle has as much time to climb ... the slower ammo, taking longer to get out of the chute, doesn't leave the barrel until it is pointed higher. My Hirtenberger .308, groups very nicely ... but about 8" higher than Winchester Supreme at 100 yds. Just another thought ... this thread seemed like it was solving the mystery with way too little confusion. :D

Saands,

ps ... I haven't brought my 8mm out to see about the different loads yet. Are the loads in the manuals all going to be wimpy "8x57J" loads as well? Where does one get the real ones? Will VihtaVuouri (being European) list the hotter, more appropriate "JS" loads?
 
If you want the best 8mm surplus you have to pay the big bucks for it: Portugese FNM 198gr. FMJ N/C ball made in the early '70s. Samco sells it for $119 for 400 rds. on steel strippers.

Reliable and extremely accurate (just like the FNM 7.62NATO). Expensive,but it's the best.
 
I've got a few cases of the Slovenian 8mm, and it shoots pretty well. It's hot stuff, but my FN49 will hold around 2" with it at 100yds without any trouble.
 
Hey guys, what is causing my gun to fail to eject the surplus rounds? Also, even if the gun is safe to fire with the surplus ammo,why would I want to use it when I have to use arkansas elevation to hit anything? The ballistically inferior remington rounds shoot as if the gun was zeroed specifically for them-2" high @ 100 yards. I can really hit with these rounds,so I know it's not operator error.

Pat Brophy
 
I found some info on those surplus loads I have been shooting. The markings on the box are as follows...ejercito...ecuatoriano...15 cartuchos..."SS"...cal 7.92mm. Can you guys I.D. these cartridges, and are they corrosive? Thanks.

Pat Brophy
 
Well the label is Spanish which translates to: 15 cartridges in a package for the Equadoran Army ... 7.92mm (IIRC) is the strictly correct way of describing the 8mm bullet we shoot. As far as "SS" goes ... beats me :)

I'd bet they are corrosive and would treat them as if they were!

Saands
 
"SS" means it's later 198gr bullet, according to my mauser book, germany's military loading was about 190 gr initially, and downed 150 something("S" bullet, I think to make faster velocity), and up 198gr again(sS bullet) to make manufacturing standardize with rifle ammo and machine gun ammo,
my home computer is down now, so I couldn't make accurate article copying,
I have Ecuadorian ammo too from last gunshow,
Rumor has it that Ecuadorian ammo was made by belgian FN by german military spec,
 
"SS" is likely the Spanish version of the designation "S" or "JS", which denotes the wider (.343"), hotter, lighter 8mm Mauser JS catridge introduced in 1905 to replace the 8mm "j", which was slower and used heavier, slightly narrower, round-nose bullets. The JS caused the US military to scrap the .30'03 and develop the .30'06, BTW. I've never seen an old "J" cartridge, and rifles chambered for it are mostly museum pieces. Yet SAAMI still limits domestic factories from loading 8mm's beyond the antique "J" levels! It's all perfectly clear ;-)

Thus, the JS loadings in surplus ammo are much faster than domestic loads. The old Turk stuff will throw its bullets at nearly 3,000 fps to the US loading's typical 2,100 fps

For handloading, a lot of manuals will give data for both "J" and "JS". I picked up Loadbook's "ONE BOOK, ONE CALIBER" 8mm Mauser book. It's got data from a dozen different sources. Highly recommended for any cartridge.
 
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