Supreme Court Avoids Gun Rights Ruling

Elker_43

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Just out: http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh1t.htm
Court Avoids Gun Rights Ruling By RICHARD CARELLI Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court today shot down an appeal in which two Louisiana men said the Constitution's Second Amendment
gives them and all Americans a personal right to own a gun.

The court, without comment, thwarted the two men from owning hunting rifles because they were convicted of serious, but nonviolent, tax crimes.

``The time is now ripe for this court to squarely confront the issue whether the Second Amendment creates a personal right in favor of individual citizens,'' the justices were told.

The amendment states: ``A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bar arms, shall not be infringed.''

In separate action, the court rejected a challenge to a federal law that prohibits anyone -- including police officers -- from possessing a gun after being convicted of a domestic-violence crime.

In that case, the justices turned away, without comment, arguments by the Fraternal Order of Police that Congress lacks the authority to set qualifications for state and local police.

Neither of today's actions set any legal precedent. The nation's highest court has ruled only once -- in 1939 -- directly on the scope of the amendment, long a hotly debated issue in the political fight over gun control.

The court 60 years ago ruled there is no right to own a sawed-off shotgun in the absence of ``some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.''

The appeal in the Louisiana case had been filed in behalf of James Kostmayer Jr. and Robert Lawson Jr., avid hunters who have been barred from purchasing rifles because of their federal tax convictions.

Kostmayer, a construction industry manager, was sentenced to 10 months in prison and three years probation after pleading guilty in 1994 to conspiring to defraud the government over taxes. Lawson, a certified
public accountant, pleaded guilty in 1993 to submitting a false federal tax form and was sentenced to two years probation.
Their lawyers say Louisiana has restored ``full rights of citizenship'' to both men, including the right to own and possess guns. But a federal law makes it a crime for convicted felons to ``possess ... any firearm or ammunition.''

After the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms refused to grant the two men any relief from the law, they sued. Their lawsuit contended, among other things, that applying the law to them violates their Second Amendment rights.

A federal judge and the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against them. ``No rational basis exists for concluding that a construction executive and a CPA endanger society when hunting ducks,'' their Supreme Court appeal said.

But government lawyers urged the justices to reject the appeal.

The second case had its roots in a 1968 federal law barring convicted felons from owning or possessing a gun. The law contains an exception for federal, state and local government officials.

In 1996, Congress extended the gun ban to anyone convicted of a domestic-violence misdemeanor. That amendment contained no exception for government officials.

The FOP sued in federal court, saying the 1996 law violated the Constitution's 10th Amendment by encroaching on states' authority to establish qualifications for their gun-carrying police officers.

A federal judge and three-judge panel of the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia upheld the 1996 law.

The cases are Kostmayer vs. Department of Treasury, 99-71, and Fraternal Order of Police vs. U.S., 99-106.

What do you think?



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To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state.
 
Why can't we get a case that doesn't involve law breakers or criminals? Someone without a record that has their rifle banned, or an anti-pistol law. Even the new Emerson case is bad, in my opinion, as he apparently did threaten his wife.
 
There was a case, against the citizenship, an outright handgun ban by The city of Morton Grove, ILL, no one would overrule the city council, a way of protesting this, a city I believe in kentucky made it mandatory to own a handgun in their city.

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
 
Oberkommando, I believe the city that passed the mandatory firearm ownership law was Kennesaw, Georgia.

The law in Kennesaw is that every home must have a firearm. I know it's the law and they passed it in protest of some city's ban on ownership.
 
The high Court always refuses to hear 2nd amendment cases. And while it is true they have more cases brought to them than they could possibly hear, 2nd amendment cases are always turned away "Without Comment".

The Court knows that ruling on the Second Ammendment, is a Slam Dunk. Either way they Rule. If they say it is an indiviual right and rule against the Goverment over 95% of the existing Gun Laws are now UnConstitutional, and considering that the 14th Ammendment aplies it to the States Also, then the people suddenly get their power back in Spades.

If they rule that the Goverment is right and the 2nd isn't an indivual right, then suddenly none of the Bill of rights protect the indiviual and the war is on. Because then the people just might decide to change the Goverment.

This does point out how important the next Presidental election is as that man will get to appoint 3 new Judges to the High Court.
 
Our past leaders put Second Amendment cowards on the Supreme Court bench.

Let's elect a President who would appoint pro-Constitutional judges to the Supreme Court.

The Democrats are anti-gun, anti-Constitution statists.

The Republicans are anti-gun, anti-Constitution elitists.

It is time for a change.
 
The one thing with the Emerson case is that the Ruling is in direct conflict with another Federal case in California. If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe this can stand this way. The Emerson case is being appealed but if the ruling stands, the SC will end up having to rule/clarify on the conflicting rulings.

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Without the 2nd Amendment,the Declaration of Independence is an old post card and the entire Constitution is just notes from a bridge club meeting.
 
God forbid these people actually make a decision they are being paid to make. I thougt it was their job to go ahead and make the tough calls, not deferr them till something easier comes along. What a bunch of weenies. Same goes for our wimpy Congress who are going to put off voting on the test ban treaty till after the elections. I guess it would not serve any of them well to have had to make a tough choice so close to election time. God forbit people actually remember how they voted and hold them accountable. A bunch of P&$$*@S, all of them.
 
The Supreme Court will NEVER hear another 2nd Amendment case, after having botched the one case they did hear.

Everyone who has read the case of US vs. Miller or just the summary sees the gigantic holes in the Governments case, the Supreme Court knows this also. They also know that the US vs Miller ruling affirmed the right of the people to keep and bear arms, Military Arms. The People. Arms. Period.

All gun laws are unconstitutional, Period.

In order for a contemporary Supreme Court to hear a 2nd Amendment issue, they would have to find for the people, as the language in the Bill of Rights is plain. To do otherwise would (as others have said,) be a horrible miscarrige, bordering on insane in view of the possible consquences, AND it would contradict a prior Supreme Court Ruling which NEVER happens.

The Fix is in, they will never hear a 2nd Amendment case, period.
 
Dennis, enlighten me on this point. When is the last time that a Republican congress has PROPOSED a tough gun law? This is not a retorical question, I really want to know. In my experience, since I have started following politics only about 7 years ago, it has been the democrats who have been the biggest enemies of the 2nd amendment. And not by coincidence, Schumer, Feinstein, McCarthy, Kennedy, Nussbaum, Moynahan, i.e. all the toughest anti-gunners are all on the left of the Democratic party.
So why do we keep equating the Republicans with the Democrats on this issue?
Yes, the Republicans may have failed to put up the strongest defense against anti-RKBA attacks, but from there to say that they are equally anti-constitution is a bit far-fetched.
Unfortunately, one of the problems for the Republicans is that they do not only have to defeat the Democrats, but also a one-sided, bug-eyedly partisan press and news-core that does nothing but spread propaganda and spin for the left. This is, in my eyes, one of the reasons for their pussyfooting around on issues as delicate as the 2nd.
What we oughta do is not abandon ship. In the Republican congress and senate we have some of the strongest pro-gun advocates, like our own Texas reps, Joe Barton and Kay B. Hutchinson, who actively opposed and helped defeat the post-Columbine-inspired laws.
Until we have a VIABLE, ELECTABLE ALTERNATIVE, we ought to stay with the Republicans, because, all considered, they have done a pretty good job stemming the ever-increasing tide of hysteria, especially in the last 12 months.
LET'S NOT FORGET THAT THERE IS NOT ONLY A PRESIDENT UP FOR ELECTION: THERE ARE ALSO 3 (I'm pretty sure this is the number) SUPREME-COURT JUDGES. I have a feeling that the gun issue could be made or broken in the courts.... just imagine.... Gore or Bradley (or one of those Hollywood clowns) appointing supreme court judges (lower-case intentional). I personally would rather have ANY republican.

Oh, by the way, can ANYBODY tell me what the latest developments in the gun-mfg suing affair? I think there were some developments today, but I missed them, managing to catch only the last sentence or so.

(Sorry, Dennis, this didn't mean AT ALL to be any sort of lecturing on my part!! I genuinely want to know why you think that Republicans and dems are equal on the RKBA arena, since to me they are like a (perhaps) not too effective defender (but defender nonetheless) versus a vicious and ever-persisting attacker respectively.)
 
Kostmayer was convicted of DEFRAUDING THE GOVERNMENT "OVER TAXES". He was taking too much taxes from the government? Or, was he trying to pay less in taxes? Who earned the money, him or the government? Obviously the government since he was trying to defraud the government of taxes.
 
416rigby;

Every now and again, the communist/democrats get bogged down in their march toward the stripping the people of the Bill of Rights and then you see a little old fasioned Republican leadership. Gun control was pretty much going nowhere after the big coup in '68.
In order to get the ball rolling again, the tyrants needed a good defining bit of legislation, Our dear Republican President Bush provided it in spades with the Bush Assault Weapons Ban. That gave the antis the momentum they needed to get really cranked up.

There is only one political party that cares about your rights, the libertarian. Not the reform, not the repubs, certainly not the dems, only the libertarians.

read:http://www.bradley.edu/campusorg/libertarian/lpdocs/leaflets/GunOwnership.html

See if you can get a Republican to put a document like that in print.

Of course, in the end, most of us will end up voting republican, but I don't want to give it away, I want those cronies to EARN my vote for a change, instead of taking it for granted, when they have done very little to deserve that honor.
 
416Rigby: Hey, let me field that one:

No, to the best of my knowlege, the Republicans have not drafted much in the way of gun control legislation. That's not how it works.

You see, the Democratic party is already identified as THE party of gun control. That leaves the Republicans with the task, in our good cop/bad cop political system, of at least appearing to be opposed to gun control. So the Democrats write the legislation, and then the Republicans oppose it... but make a point of doing so unsuccessfully. Think about it, Rigby; In '94, before the election, the Republicans had just BARELY short of enough votes to stop gun control cold. The BARELY missed defeating the Brady Bill, (In fact, they accidentally succeeded in beating it, and had to engage in some very unconstitutional last minute manuvers to revive it.) they BARELY missed defeating the "assault weapons" ban. (Because they went out of their way in advance to agree to rules of debate which prohibited a filibuster of the gun control provisions, the only way they could have defeated it.) Then we go to vote in a massive way, anti-gun Democrats get pink slips in favor of supposedly pro gun Republicans, and the ballance of power shifts. Stands to reason that after '94, the Republicans ought to have had the power to SUCCESSFULLY block gun control laws, right?

But they don't. The much hated Lautenberg amendment, which deprives anyone who has EVER been convicted of a "domestic violence" misdemeanor of their right to keep and bear arms, passed a Republican controlled Congress. So did the Kohl amendment, which re-enacted the gun free school zone law the Supreme court had struck down in the Lopez decision. And now we have this juvenile crime bill, which the Republican leadership just "accidentally" brought up for debate at the very peak of the post Columbine media frenzy; The only reason it didn't pass was that the Democrats wouldn't settle for half a loaf, and the Republicans are determined to give the Democrats another chance to defeat them and get it passed.

This isn't ineptitude, it's not stupidity, it's not bad timing. Democrats advance gun control by fighting for it, Republicans advance it by fighting against it and TAKING A DIVE. In a sense the Democrats aren't as obnoxious as the Republicans; At least they don't pretend to be our friends while they're plotting how to sink a knife in our backs!

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
Point taken, Dog3 and Brett!

You are right in everything you say, and, unfortunately, we all recognize it. Makes you wonder why the Republicans don't get more aggressive by PROPOSING more pro-gun bills so that the champagne socialists on the left would finally be on the defensive.... Unfortunately, though, the Repubs seem to have a problem acting like the majority party (sort of like the dog that finally manages to catch up to the car: "......uuuuh, now what?!"). Could it be because of the unusually efficient propaganda machine that the current occupant of the White House has put into place? I guess the real test for Repubs would be IF in the next election we finally manage to have a GOP President, House and Senate. THEN, if we don't see a more aggressive stance on the 2nd you will see a lot of people (me first) turning to the Libertarians and the latter party, hopefully, growing to be something to be reckoned with!

I recently took a look at the pending bills in the House and Senate: 8 pro (all R) versus 17 anti (mostly D) in the House and one lonly pro bill in the Senate vs a whole bunch of anti (mostly sponsored by that old fathead Moynihan).

WHY CAN"T IT BE THE OPPOSITE??? Why can't the tally be overwhelmingly on the side of pro-gun bills? What does it take to get aggressive in favor of the IInd Amendment?

However, the one pro-gun bill in the senate, S597, by Bob Smith (R-NH)proposes to, once and for all, to protect the INDIVIDUAL rights of citizens under the 2nd and modify title 28 of the United States Code accordingly. This may be what we are waiting for, but I won't hold my breath!
 
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