Subject: Never Surrender. Never Give In. Resist, Resist, Resist !!!

A

Alaska444

Moderator
Here is an email thread I got about CCW and NEVER SURRENDER. As a firearms carrying person, it made me think again about how I would or would not respond in an attack. Take a look, quite a motivational CCW pep talk. Not sure how good it is for CCW laws, but makes you think about the criminal element and how you can NEVER trust them. Quite a different perspective than is often heard.

“"Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense"……..Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941
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Original email stated: I do not know the author of the following article but he has a point. Surrender is not an option and this article make a good case for that position.
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The Phases of Surrender
The first phase of surrender is failing to be armed, trained and committed to fight. We are prepared to surrender when we are unprepared to resist.

The second phase of surrender is failing to be alert. You must see trouble coming in order to have time to respond. The warning may be less than one second but it will be there and it must be recognized and acted upon immediately.

The Third phase of surrender is giving up your weapons.

The last phase of surrender is up to the monsters who have taken control of your life and perhaps the lives of your loved ones. The last phase of surrender is out of your hands.
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Larry and Stacey Mudgett

© 2011 Marksmanship Matters. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=63
 
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Very valid points.

However, there is a bit of a difference between having your F-105 shot out from under you and waking up looking at the muzzel of an SKS than the guys at Corregidor throwing in the towel.
 
"In addition to the 50,000 captured Americans who died in Japanese prison camps an additional 20,000 were murdered before reaching a prison camp. If those 70,000 Americans had continued to fight, they could have provided time for the United States to build and maneuver its forces, perhaps shortening the war and saving even more lives."

I love revisionist history. There was an ongoing 3-month siege and they were suffering extensively from malnutrition and disease. Why do you think their positions were overrun in the first place? They had kept fighting.

Sheesh.
 
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender...
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Although I'm American, I still get goose bumps every time I hear this portion of Churchill's speech.

Excellent thread!
 
Never surrender...firearms!

History of the Oct 2, 1835 Come and Take It flag!
http://www.comeandtakeit.com/txhist.html

Come%20And%20Take%20It%20flag%20with%20Cannon%20small.gif

Come%20And%20Take%20It%20flag%20with%20Assault%20Rifle%20small.gif

http://www.comeandtakeit.com/Come And Take It flag with BMG small.gif
http://www.comeandtakeit.com/Come And Take It flag with M14 small.gif
 
In addition to the 50,000 captured Americans who died in Japanese prison camps an additional 20,000 were murdered before reaching a prison camp. If those 70,000 Americans had continued to fight, they could have provided time for the United States to build and maneuver its forces, perhaps shortening the war and saving even more lives. Some of them would have likely survived the war. If they had all died in battle their fate would have been no worse.
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This is not true:

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/usprisoners_japancomp.htm#prison

Dr. Stenger lists 27,465 POWs in the Pacific, of whom 11,107 died while in detention. He estimates that 4,477 of the survivors are alive as of January 1, 2003.
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Makes me wonder about other stuff in that "motivational letter".

BTW: Two of my first cousins were captured by the Japanese army in the Phillipines: One escaped and was KIA at St. Mere Eglise on D-Day. The other survived the war.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/usprisoners_japancomp.htm#prison
 
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Kind of gives a resurgence to the old adage:

"I will give up my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hands".

Don't know the original author, . . . but sure do think he is right.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
"Marksmanship Matters"

So does historical accuracy. My father knew some of those men you've insulted by calling them quitters.

:mad:

John
 
My father knew some of those men you've insulted by calling them quitters.
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+1
It's easy to sit at a computer and Monday morning quarterback wars and surrenders while revising history. That won't play with those of us who are well read on US wars.

i knew numerous guys who were captured by the Germans and Japanese during WWII. Most were career military men. All of the career military POWs i knew also fought in Korea and/or Vietnam. They are all gone now.

At the time of their surrender US troops in the Phillipines were starving and running out of ammo. There was no relief in sight.
 
I wasn't there, but my father was on a troop ship on the way to the Philippines when it fell. They were diverted to Australia.

I use to talk to him about it when I was studying military history in college. He told me that they didn't think they could make it in time, nor, did they have the air and sea assets to protect a landing. It would have been a disaster.

There is a big difference in comparing Churchill and England and Wainwright and the Philippines.

Big difference between the Philippines and telling a street cop to never give up his gun.
 
Frank Buckles, the last surviving WW1 US vet was also a POW in WW2 taken prisoner by the Japanese in the Philippines.
The overwhelming majority of Allied POW's survived the war and returned home to contribute more to their countries than they could have in useless and pointless last stands...and to father families which I'm sure their children were grateful for.
 
To me, it is a fairly simple fact that a cop should never give up his weapon.

That being said, surrendering in war time is a different matter entirerly.

Further compounding the matter, is the nature of whom you are surrendering to and why.
 
I think you've got to consider a single individual considering surrender to a rapist or murderer... separate from a military unit considering surrender to an enemy. The enemy force doesn't have to silence witnesses, their aim is victory. It would be strange to expect torture and murder from a military force, not so from a criminal. Both could be wrong, but you have to go by the most likely.

why the gun IS civilization
 
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