Stupid question time - vertical pistol grips on pistols

A

armoredman

New member
I know dadgum little about NFA, but I have been told the only fore grip you can use on a railed pistol is the Magpul AFG, without changing the legality of the pistol.

If I wanted to use a vertical fore grip on a CZ EVO, would this change it to an AOW for $5, or something else? Would 922(r) apply in this case?
Why would I want to? Just a thought, might be more controllable like that, so why not, but if I did something like that, I want to make sure I am going to stay on the right side of the cell door.
 
Anything that is a handgun, and has a second vertical grip, as in addition to the normal grip is subject to nfa and is an any other weapon, or aow.
If you purchased a registered aow on a form 4, the tax is $5. If you yourself make it on a form 1, the tax is $200.
It is legal to use the Magpul afg front grip on a handgun without changing it to an aow. The afg is not vertical, and you cannot wrap your hand around it like a standard grip.
 
Are the CZ EVOs even out yet?

A vertical foregrip on a handgun makes it an AOW. The Magpul AFG has been explicitly ruled as not redesigning a pistol into AOW.

If you were looking to go NFA, however, wouldn't it make sense to go with one of the SBR models with the full stock? Seems far more versatile to me
 
No, the magazine is a magazine. If it is forward of the trigger it is still just a magazine.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I just recall reading about a girl in LA (i think) who had one and had to move because a new law made it illegal.
 
Does't an AOW have to be manufactured as an AOW by the company that produced the firearm? unless you have a firearm that meets the criteria to be made into an AOW on a form 1?
 
Anyone can do a form 1 and pay $200 to make an AOW. Adding a VPG would be a good example of that. I would just do it as an SBR and have a stock as well

If a SOT made a AOW and you bought it as such it is only $5 to transfer to you on a form 4.
 
I never understood the value of a forward pistol grip on a gun, until I owned an MP5K. The front pistol grip makes the gun significantly more controllable.

It makes sense; afterall, why put your overhand over your dominant hand, when you can put the overhand on a foregrip and create more control and balance. It helps significantly with target reacquisition, too.

I've seen the forward grips that attach to an HK or glock type front rail, but those are too big. It would be awesome if Glock or HK manufactured a gun where the front foregrip was thin enough to fit integrally underneath the front area of the gun, and was thin enough to fit a traditional holster.

Alas, such a foregrip, according to an ATF opinion, constitutes manufacture of an AOW. The designation that such a design would subject the gun to NFA regulations significantly shrinks the market, and thus correspondingly shrink any manufacturers' R&D for such an item.
 
A "grip" is designed to be "gripped" by the hand, which has always.meant the hand is wrapped around it. With the Magpul afg, you cannot do that, only cup it more like a forearm, and maybe get a finger or two in the cavity.
A magwell is not a grip, or designed to be a grip. Gripping it does not change that (kind of like shouldering the sig brace did not change its design). Adding finger grooves and shapes for gripping to a magwell in the original design could change that.
An aow can only be made from a virgin receiver, pistol, or "firearm", not from a rifle or shotgun.
The shotguns that come from the factory with a pistol grip are not considered "shotguns" by atf but "firearms". This is because the official definition of a "shotgun" or "rifle" includes that it is designed and manufactured to be fired from the shoulder, and therefore has a stock.
"firearm" is a gray category where guns that don't really fit anywhere else go. It's the non nfa version of aow category.
Therefore, an aow, such a the Serbu super shorty can legally be made from a new receiver or one of the factory equipped pistol grip shotguns, but not one that came from the factory with a stock on it. What was in the box is irrelevant, it's what was on the gun that matters. A Serbu super shorty built on a shotgun that originally came with a stock by law would have to be registered as an sbs.
 
Oh, just adding an sot to a standard 01 or 02 ffl does not allow the ffl to make anything, only sell nfa.
To make nfa as a business, a type 07 manufacturers ffl is required, with the added sot. The business can also sell with the 07.
 
Sure, but generally, it's kind of a "try it and see what happens" kind of thing. If it works, great. If not, well, don't do that anymore with that gun.
 
armoredman Not sure yet if the EVO can be SBR'd, legal experts looking into that.
Click to expand...
Why do you need "legal experts" to look into it?
Add a shoulder stock and any pistol becomes an SBR.

That's been pretty darn clear since 1934.
 
A horizontal grip is still a second grip, so almost certainly an aow.
Any pistol can be sbr'ed. Only question comes if it's imported. Pistols do not fall under 922r, only rifles. An sbr is a rifle. I have heard lots of argument, but not a positive answer yet on whether an sbr falls under 922r.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top