Stuck on new gun caliber.

J

jbat35

Inactive
First I would like to apologize for the cliche-ness of this question. I hate coming on a forums and asking a question that has been asked many times. However, I have a few twists that I have not been able to find. I have done at least 20 hours of research and gone to a range with a friend with one of the calibers I am looking into to try it.
So I am looking to buy a new gun. I have a benelli 12 gauge so I'm looking to bridge the spectrum a little and get something with a lot more range.
The calibers I am looking at are .223, .243, and .308. They are common in the guns I am looking at.
Conditions:
1. I will be shooting quite a bit, preferably at least 50 rounds a week. So I would like to take barrel burnout into effect and what you guys think.

2. 8 months a year I am at school, and there is a range less than 15 minutes away, set for 600 yards max (I'm probably only going to be shooting 200-300). But when I'm home, there isn't a good range with rifle capability for a good 45 minutes. A friend of mine has land right next to the local trap club that I can shoot at once or twice a month. However, even though shooting is fine on his land (We have checked all legal precautions) before, when shooting shotguns on his land, his neighbors have called very mad at the noise. They're a bunch of sissies, and they live next to a gun club, but I guess they heard a little louder noise and didn't like it. Normally I would just tell them its perfectly legal and unfortunately there's nothing they can do, but its not my land. His parents don't care, but if they get calls from the neighbors they might (They have called them once before when shooting shotguns). Also if I'm shooting frequently at a range, I don't want to be the jerk who is always blasting constantly with a large caliber.

So what do you guys think on muzzle blast and is there enough between them to say I may want to stick to .223? I have shot the .243, and they do have one heck of a report, so what would you seasoned members say?

3. In my schools state, the wind is always high (10-30 mph). At 200-300 yards or if I want to explore further, do I want to go .243 or .308 for the wind bucking? Like I said the only thing I have right now is a 12 gauge, so I rarely shoot slugs more than 75 yards.

4. Ammunition prices: I know people say that .223 is cheapest, then .243, then .308. I checked a local store quick, and saw all of them had prices varying from $17 to $40 per 20. I did not see what grains, and didn't check quality, but for some ranged accuracy for personal bests and killing papers, is there reason to consider a price or are they all more or less the same per 20. I may look into reloading in the future, but I doubt my dorm would like me doing it, so as of now its just not the time or place so assume I would be buying all my ammunition from a sheels/l&m/fleet farm/cabelas.

5. Kick: .223 and .243 are no problem, and I am a large (6'4" and 240lb) guy. However I have seen people say to maybe stay away from .308 if you are going to shoot a lot. Like I said, my shoots will be from 20-60 rounds, usually on the higher end, and as of now I shoot shotguns weekly. I usually can go 10 slugs from a bench until I am un-pleasurably feeling shots, and I don't want to get a .308 if I shoot 20 times and have to quit.

6. Possible hunting: I might start hunting with some friends once I get a rifle. I am more into the sport than the product (said straight forward) as I have only shot birds before and as a trap shooter I am a fan of shooting, not sitting. I know the possibilities of a .223, .243, and .308. I like the .243 hybrid abilities, but I would like to be able to get small game with a .223, and go on big game hunts with a .308. I have friends that hunt everything, so it is for certain that what ever gun I get I can hunt something.

7. Coolness factor (optional): As some of the calibers are more practical, the .308 is nice just for the sheer size, the bullet hiss, the shock-line visible. Plus its a military sniper caliber.


All of these are factors I am trying to balance to determine my final buy. Yes, I will mostly be paper punching and I know someone will say get a .22. I have shot them thousands of times, and as cheap as they are, I want to explore longer ranges. Also, bigger calibers are just so much fun. I am not sure how much each of these weigh in, because each are conditional. The times at which I wish I had a different caliber will be when I run into a problem or a want that I cannot satisfy. That's why I am asking you guys what you would weigh each and what you would buy. I apologize if I used improper terms, or if anyone disagrees with anything. Please, all opinions accepted. Thanks guys.
 
They're a bunch of sissies, and they live next to a gun club, but I guess they heard a little louder noise and didn't like it.
Click to expand...

This calls for a can!

If it's legal in your state, a suprressor would be the perfect answer to the issue..... it might cost as much as the rifle, but it would solve the issue at hand, plus hard to beat for cool factor.

I think it would be neat to have a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle and a suppressor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5XV7NYAG2Y
 
Barrel length effects how loud the rifle is. The shorter the louder.

.223 can be as loud as any caliber in many circumstances..

.223 is the most economical and has plenty of power to boot. But is not the best 600 yd gun. Many do it however.
 
Barrel length effects how loud the rifle is. The shorter the louder.
Click to expand...
Personally I think this is only relevant from the position of the shooter and then only a slight increase in noise. I never noticed much if any increase in noise between my 16" .30-30 and my 20". Maybe a slight increase from the position of the shooter with my 18'5" .243 compared to a 22". From 200 yards way? Not the least bit significant.

Jbat, unless you have a reason such as platform requirements or spending long days over a prairie dog town there is no reason to stick with a .223. Go .243.

LK
 
You're probably right, but my mini 14 is louder from the perspective of the shooter than my .30 caliber rifles, 12ga ect.....and a huge difference between a pistol and a pistol caliber carbine
 
In my home state silencers are illegal. Of the 50, I believe there are only 3 or so that do not allow silencers. Even with the stamp. Since it is my place of residence, I cannot buy one. Also I don't have the money for one, they are expensive!

As for the .243, my only concern other than loudness is barrel life, because of the three I have heard they wear out the barrel quick. I usually hear 1500 for 1 moa at 500 or something like that, which means for me I could get a bit more around the 2500 range before it should effect me too much. But I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

I also want to say I have no objection to blowing up prairie dogs
 
The .243 is the way to go if you're buying just one rifle.

The .223 with 75-77 grain bullets is an excellent choice if you have thoughts of going to a heavier rifle in the future. There are several caliber and load combinations that will have very close to the same drop and wind drift at 600 yards. The .243 can also serve as your "small gun" too.

You can see a discussion at http://shootersnotes.com/articles/paired-rifles/
 
I'd say go 308, its the most bang for your buck. Recoil isnt bad expecially if you go with a heavy target style rifle. You can find cheap fmj loads for less than 243 sometimes too.
 
Jbat

Since you are in school and that is more important than anything else (believe me, I know you have heard that before). I would suggest a 22 LR for plinking. You may not want to hear that, but it is true. Once you graduate you will have plenty of time and opportunity to buy and shoot larger calibers. Wait till you are earning serious cash, before you get yourself into spending serious cash on this hobby (yes, it is not cheap).

Sorry, somethings are really better to wait for.
Jim
 
I will be shooting quite a bit, preferably at least 50 rounds a week. So I would like to take barrel burnout into effect and what you guys think.
Click to expand...
I really don't think 50 rounds a week is enough to worry about barrel burn out (unless you are hand loading and shooting hot loads maybe). Could be wrong, I shoot that many in a day sometimes. As for recoil, the .308 is not really any worse than the .243 to me. I doubt someone your size would have much problem with it. I personally shoot the .243 because that is what I like.
It may just be the shooters perspective as said earlier but, my 16" AR in .223 seems much louder than my 22" M70 in .243.
As for hunting, the .243 and the .308 will both do anything the .223 will, the .243 and .308 are both good for up to deer and pronghorn sized animals, anything larger than that I would go for the .308 if those are the choices I was limited to.
 
Last edited:
Ok good ideas, I know the .243 is good as an everything rifle. Good at long ranges, can go between different game with bullets. Just any experience with barrel burnout? I don't want to buy a new barrel every year. I am not hurting financially, and have school covered by academics, but I still don't want to keep paying hundreds to keep my gun operational beyond the cleaning and maintenance you normally need. If I was, I wouldn't be shooting period, or have a high end Benelli and shoot more than 100 shells a week.

I have estimated, at 50 rounds a week with .243, that if I expect my barrel to last to 2000 rounds, nearly 2 most estimates I have seen, I will get exactly 1 year out of a barrel.


Really all that is stopping me right now from the .243 is possible short barrel life, and from the .308 is if I cannot shoot 60 rounds without discomfort. Both are ifs, in case anyone has some light to shine on either.

Thanks a ton to all that have posted!
 
Last edited:
My M70 was built in 1971 and still has the original barrel. I have owned it for about 10 years, and I know the person who bought it new. It was never a safe queen. It will shoot MOA with 100gr Core Lokt. Sub MOA with varmint rounds and handloads.
 
and I am a large (6'4" and 240lb) guy. However I have seen people say to maybe stay away from .308 if you are going to shoot a lot.
Click to expand...
I am 5'8" and weighed 155 last time I shot 30-06 the amount you are talking about. I was shooting a Garand, which is a fairly heavy semi-automatic, but I had absolutely no problem with the recoil. I was only scoring 240 on the USMC PFT. If you are looking at an extremely light hunting gun it may be an issue. It is not difficult to add weight to a wood stock and not impossible to do it with a synthetic. Just get lead inside it. Military rifles have almost no recoil pad. If your gun has a decent recoil pad that will help a lot also. If you are shooting properly I really don't think the recoil will be an issue unless you have a super lite bolt gun with a crappy recoil pad.

When i cut my mini-14 to 16" it got a lot louder.

How many people are shooting 243s as much as he is talking about? Having a rifle re-barreled is going to run about the same as an economy rifle, especially if you are shipping the gun and paying FFLs.
I would look at a CMP Garand first. 30-06, but if you ever wear it out and need a rebarel you can do it in 308.
Then 223

and 243 last, unless you want it for hunting PRIMARILY.
 
IMO, there are several things to consider that we don't know. You mention possible hunting but not what you may be hunting. This can rule out a .223 depending on your state game laws and what you plan on hunting. Be aware that the rate of twist on a .223 can vary widely. Some are 1:12 while others are 1:9 or 1:7. What weight of bullet do you plan on shooting in a .223?

You also mention small game hunting. Can you legally use a .22LR in your state for small game? I like the idea of two rifles, one in .22LR and one in the centerfire of your choice. (IF you choose to go this route, I would skip the .223. IF this is the route you go, I would also get the rifles in the same action. If you shoot the .243 or .308 less, you will eventually pay for the cost of the .22LR rifle. The Savage Mk II bolt action in .22LR is reasonably priced and accurate. Shoot more of the .22LR at your friends house and a few of the centerfire. If you slowly increase the amount of centerfire shots, it may not be an issue for the neighbors.) Make sure you have a very good backstop and no ricochets.
 
Yea that's the exact thing, I have asked a few people, but most people use .243 as deer or coyote guns and only shoot 20 rounds a year with it. I did shoot 1, and man was it a fun gun, but then again, other than shotguns, our family .22, and a Grizzly T-50, I haven't shot any hunting rifles.

As for what I can hunt, I have friends at my school that I can hunt ANYTHING under the rainbow with. I got friends who have offered a spot in their group for small furbearers, coyote, deer, bear, and more.

As for rounds for a caliber, I will determine that once I choose. Once I have an idea what I really want to do, the I can narrow it down to twist, guns, manufacturer, and so forth.

Our family DOES have a .22, so I do have one for plinking stuff, it would be nice to have more a middle/range gun. As of now, I hit my target with a .22 or a 1oz lead slug, so you get the picture.

As for my friends land, just to clarify for safety purposes, his land use to be owned by the gun range before they downsized. They have a 400 yard range with what I would guess to be a 15 foot tall berm, and for behind nothing for at least 5 miles.

To answer a new post without re posting, I do not NEED a gun for those trips, they are just the options I have, basically to give an idea that any gun I get I can/will find an opportunity to hunt with it.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like the .308 would be the best choice of those three in my opinion. I love my .243 but, I don't think I would take it bear hunting.
 
I have estimated, at 50 rounds a week with .243, that if I expect my barrel to last to 2000 rounds, nearly 2 most estimates I have seen, I will get exactly 1 year out of a barrel.
Click to expand...

I have put far more than 2K rounds through my .270 WIN, and can still shoot 3 rounds into 1 1/2" without a benchrest at 100 with my handloads ....

Seriously, though: If you are going to shoot 2K rounds/a year ..... handload. You'll save considerable money if you buy in bulk..... if you save 25 cents a round over Sheels retail, then you could buy another barrel every year..... not that you'll need it, unless you are maxing out a real overbore caliber..... get a Savage and a barrel vise and action wrench from Midway and it's a DIY project....
 
I think you are down to one choice and that is 308. If you are going to be doing that much shooting you would be well served to buy some surplus ammo, to save cost and there really is no need to shoot that much good ammo up every week for practice. So I would definitely go 308 and buy 750 rounds of radway green or something similar.
 
Your biggest costs to consider for frequent, regular shooting is ammo.

I don't imagine you will have the time, space to reload right now.

.223 is by far the most economical centerfire cartridge to shoot. You can even take it hunting or shoot beyond 300 yards if you use the larger grain bullet loadings 68-80 grain (1 MOA accuracy) vs the smaller 55-62 common military spec ammunition (2-3 MOA accuracy) from a bolt gun or AR.

.223 is a little bit of a stretch for big game hunting, but with the right type of bullet and shot placement and reasonable distance say 100 yards, white tail deer size critters should go down.

I don't see an advantage for .308 from a cost perspective. Yes, Garands, M1A, and .308 bolt guns are fun but the cost may keep you from enjoying your hobbie. In .308, 147 FMJ M80 ball type ammunition whether new or surplus is 2-3 MOA at best. THe more accurate match ammo (sub 1 MOA) is a buck or more per round.

After 40-50 rounds of my .308 Rem 700 (10+lb setup with scope and rifle), I am more than ready to call it a day or reach for the padded shoulder recoil pad. Likewise, I can shoot hundreds of .223 or 6.8 mm SPC (too expensive to plink) in an AR without worry of developing a flinch.

The .243 is an ideal hunting cartridge for a hunter than shoots a box or two a year every fall but the short barrel life is less than ideal for your ideal volume of shooting.
 
You are just gonna go do some 200-300 yard range plinking? This is ez, .223. The ammo is cheap and available everywhere, it is a fun ammo to shoot and doesn't have a lot of recoil. Noise is dependent on the gun you are going to purchase of course. Not only that but .223 comes in a large variety of shooting implements for your stylish pleasures.

Not to mention if you are going to shoot on land without a backstop (i.e. prairie or farm), a .223 won't have the travel of the larger caliber. If you want a larger round later, then after you graduate, get a job, then get another one in .308 (or whatever).

Someone mentioned the .22, that is a very very fun gun to spend an afternoon with, but gets beat on by windy, long distance conditions. But you can shoot it forever for the price of a fast food lunch.

Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top