Was shooting low to midrange loads in 308 today in Savage Axis and Tikka T3. Had loaded up about 60 in different configurations but 5 for each rifle. All fls. About 4 rounds of some Nosler bt's in the Axis would let bolt handle raise but not pull back. Had to take something and knock it open. Any idea what caused this? Saw no signs of over pressure.
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Stuck bolt on Savage
- Thread starter Wendyj
- Start date
You have one of the obvious signs of over pressure right there--no other signs are needed. Measure case head diameter and compare to standard case. Any case head expansion is another sign of over pressure.
Have gunsmith inspect rifle.
You may want to pull the loads and check the powder charge weights.
Have gunsmith inspect rifle.
You may want to pull the loads and check the powder charge weights.
All brass full length sized. 39.5 grains to 41 grains of IMR 3031
165-168 grain Nosler bt's. Br2 primers. Lake city match brass and Norma brass. All trimmed to Sami specs. Coal 2.810. Progressive press. All charges weighed individually. Quit neck sizing one day after buying die. Fls all I had neck sized before. Don't like Lees collet die. Getting rid of savage anyway if I can't find barrel I've been looking for. Time I buy new barrel and stock I could just buy another rifle.
165-168 grain Nosler bt's. Br2 primers. Lake city match brass and Norma brass. All trimmed to Sami specs. Coal 2.810. Progressive press. All charges weighed individually. Quit neck sizing one day after buying die. Fls all I had neck sized before. Don't like Lees collet die. Getting rid of savage anyway if I can't find barrel I've been looking for. Time I buy new barrel and stock I could just buy another rifle.
condor bravo
New member
For now I would only be concerned if the extraction difficulty continues. I've had a similar situation with a Rem 700 in .458 Win Mag but it took a long time for the problem to get to the point where a mallet was required to extract the bolt after firing although bolt lift was easy. It finally hit home that I had a real problem that was not going to be self-correcting. Solution was a $500 barrel replacement through Douglas Barrels.
But if the extraction difficulty has happened for only four rounds and does not continue to happen, the problem is probably not quite the same or as serious as with the .458. For now, examine the problem cases and see if there might be any projections on the outside of the case walls. If any are present, they will be obvious visually and by feel. Pressures do not need to be high for this to occur. Report back if any are detected or if extraction continues to be difficult. Then the probable cause of the situation can be verified and explained. But for now it remains mostly a mystery. For the purpose of this discussion I'm conceding that the powder charges are OK.
But if the extraction difficulty has happened for only four rounds and does not continue to happen, the problem is probably not quite the same or as serious as with the .458. For now, examine the problem cases and see if there might be any projections on the outside of the case walls. If any are present, they will be obvious visually and by feel. Pressures do not need to be high for this to occur. Report back if any are detected or if extraction continues to be difficult. Then the probable cause of the situation can be verified and explained. But for now it remains mostly a mystery. For the purpose of this discussion I'm conceding that the powder charges are OK.
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You said, low to mid range loads? Sometimes a low load will cause excessive pressure as well as max loads. The hard extraction is the classic sign of excessive pressure. Since I guess that the Axis is a new rifle, you may have a very tight chamber and the brass you were using did not snap back to it's original size and may have caused additional tension on the neck portion of the case. Generally when you have excessive pressure it becomes difficult to even get the bolt open let alone back.
So here I am guessing that the cases you were using were work harden (5 or 6 firings), and have lost their ability to snap back to re-sized size and caused the need to use force to extract the case.
Try using some new factory ammo and see if the problem remains, if it does not them toss those cases or start annealing your necks to solve your problem.
Good luck and stay safe.
Jim
So here I am guessing that the cases you were using were work harden (5 or 6 firings), and have lost their ability to snap back to re-sized size and caused the need to use force to extract the case.
Try using some new factory ammo and see if the problem remains, if it does not them toss those cases or start annealing your necks to solve your problem.
Good luck and stay safe.
Jim
condor bravo
New member
Jim243:
I get the impression that the Savage is a rather old rifle. Note post #4 where she indicates maybe getting rid of the rifle if an appropriate barrel cannot be found. We'll see if additional reports are forthcoming. My tentative diagnosis of the situation is a possible pitted chamber which results in her described easy bolt lift but difficult bolt extraction. This condition is usually verified by dimples or other projections forming on the cartridge cases as a result of imbedding into the pits but retracting enough to allow easy bolt lift, but then resulting in insufficient clearance with chamber walls to allow easy bolt extraction. Found this out at the tune of $500 for a barrel replacement. Nasty job but it had to be done. Since I think the Savage rifle is rather old, it could be the victim of chamber pitting. But, if that was the case, the extraction difficulty would likely happen after every shot rather than just four or so.
I get the impression that the Savage is a rather old rifle. Note post #4 where she indicates maybe getting rid of the rifle if an appropriate barrel cannot be found. We'll see if additional reports are forthcoming. My tentative diagnosis of the situation is a possible pitted chamber which results in her described easy bolt lift but difficult bolt extraction. This condition is usually verified by dimples or other projections forming on the cartridge cases as a result of imbedding into the pits but retracting enough to allow easy bolt lift, but then resulting in insufficient clearance with chamber walls to allow easy bolt extraction. Found this out at the tune of $500 for a barrel replacement. Nasty job but it had to be done. Since I think the Savage rifle is rather old, it could be the victim of chamber pitting. But, if that was the case, the extraction difficulty would likely happen after every shot rather than just four or so.
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condor bravo
New member
F Guffey
Note that she does not indicate bolt lift as being difficult but rather bolt extraction as the difficult part.
Note that she does not indicate bolt lift as being difficult but rather bolt extraction as the difficult part.
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I get the impression that the Savage is a rather old rifle.
Condor, it can't be that old - it's an Axis (introduced somewhere around 2010).
Something to check. I had this happen to me with a custom .308 Remington.
Chamber, but don't fire one of the "problem" loads.
Now extract it & look closely at the bullet. Does it show any sign of contacting the lands? (you can "paint it" with a sharpie to really show any contact).
What happened to me was I bought some factory ammo that used a bullet who's profile was longer than I'd had the barrel chambered for. The bullet was jammed into the leade & so the pressure climbed because there was no "running start" for that projectile.
Chamber, but don't fire one of the "problem" loads.
Now extract it & look closely at the bullet. Does it show any sign of contacting the lands? (you can "paint it" with a sharpie to really show any contact).
What happened to me was I bought some factory ammo that used a bullet who's profile was longer than I'd had the barrel chambered for. The bullet was jammed into the leade & so the pressure climbed because there was no "running start" for that projectile.
condor bravo
New member
Doyle:
Thanks for the correction; wasn't aware rifle was that new so I apologize for the error. I guess I was basing my presumption on her statement that seems to indicate possibly getting rid of the gun if unable to locate a suitable barrel
Thanks for the correction; wasn't aware rifle was that new so I apologize for the error. I guess I was basing my presumption on her statement that seems to indicate possibly getting rid of the gun if unable to locate a suitable barrel
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All brass full length sized. 39.5 grains to 41 grains of IMR 3031
I have shot 168 Match bullets with these loads and these are not hot loads. You should not be having any high pressure or extraction problems with these loads.
I assume what you were indicating was that you could open the bolt but extraction was difficult. I guess that means whatever primary extraction capability the Savage has was not working with your loads.
I assume the loads that caused pressure indications in the Savage gave no problems in the Tika?
This is hard to diagnose. First thing I would do is use JB bore paste on the Savage barrel and pay particular attention to the throat. I would make sure that there are no chamber scratches and that case length is proper. Reamers are different between companies and if the case sticks in the throat of one, but not the other, high pressures will result in the first one.
Did you check trim length on your cases?
Before the JB paste, I'd do one more shoot test with that same load. However, this time I'd take a black marker and color the entire case completely. Make a different color mark on one side of the case and make sure you chamber the round with that different color mark facing straight up. That way, when you shoot and then eject the round you'll not only see any place where it is scraping the chamber, that mark will also tell you where that spot is.
WVMountaineer
New member
The first thing I'd do is check my chamber and bolt to ensure they weren't gunk'ed up with lube or such. If the bolt opened easily but, wouldn't slide back, it isn't pressure caused. Check your chamber or bolt for the problem. God Bless
I sure do appreciate all the advise and will follow thru. Guess I'm going to bite the bullet and order the 7-08 barrel. Finally found one at Midway. I gave it a good thorough cleaning. All looks good but going to try a few more rounds before sending it to gun smith to exchange barrels. Sorry. Trim length was 2.004 to 2.005.
Curiosity, I want to know the length of the chamber, all of the lengths. To most the chamber has one, the case has one length. Problem, I have case gages that are datum based, when that happens I get three lengths, and then there are case trimmers, some are datum based with total disregard to case length from the mouth of the case to the case head.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
I took brass and using Hornady headspace guage set the shoulders back .002 in sizing die. Full length. Haven't checked the lands as I'm loading to fit magazine. 2.80 on 178 Amax and 2.810 on Nosler bt's. 2.750 on Sierra spitzer game kings. I do have tool from Hornady to measure to the lands. Bolt lifted fine but had to use stick to knock bolt open. I've parked it for now. Getting ready to order the 7-08 or 260 barrel. Well I thought. Kind of leaning towards a 22-250 for some coyote hunting. Waiting for best deal on stainless barrel if I can find one. After 120 rounds through 7 mag and 2 super light rifles Saturday in 308 I don't feel the need to shoot 2 308 rifles that pretty much are shooting sub moa. Tikka is going to be replaced in a few weeks with Remington 700 mil spec with HS precision stock and 5R rifling.