Stripping a gun for parts. Legal? Reasonable?

R

redlightrich

New member
Hello all, I have just purchased a Walther PPK/S, in 22lr. I am actually pleasantly surprised on it's accuracy and how well it cycles. It easily ate all ammo I fed it ( except Agulia 40g CPRN) which I am wondering if it is a bad batch, or if the cold temperature which was 27 or so contributed to the horrible Aguila performance. . I did try to cycle the Aguila in my Kimber 22lr and same story. Will not cycle. Aguila is usually pretty good, but not that day.

At any rate, after I put over 250 rounds down range, I realized this is a fun little gun. Looking it over, I do have questions on how long this will last. It is well made, but I realize they cut cost on the materials. I like it so much, I want to keep it running as long as I can. Maybe a spare of every part will insure that it will never break!!

I also realize that this gun carries a lifetime warranty, but if parts are not available, that is a small comfort, which brings me to my question. I asked my local gun dealer to buy me another, I wanted to strip it of every part, and leave him with the frame ( the serialized part) to do as he pleased with. He told me he can't do that, being it is gets booked in. I told him sell the frame on GB for 25 dollars, and he still said no.
I do not want to "burn" a permit for a parts gun. In NJ, each handgun requires a separate permit, 30 day wait in between and more. Are there any states that have laws that are realistic enough, where a gun store may entertain my request. I realize I would have to pay to have it fully disassembled, which is why my LGS would be my best bet. He allows me to disassemble used guns to inspect them, and this would be no different. I would not have to pay for a service that I am well capable of. Also, I would take greater care in disassembly, to keep every small item in perfect condition. Yes, this is an unusual request.

Looking at Bersa Thunder's gave me the idea. I see on flea bay multiple ads where someone did just this. They took a Thunder, stripped every part, and are selling it all, without the frame. I am not sure why so many Thunders get demoted to parts only, but there are usually 4 or 5 at most times. The only Walther parts I find are for the real Walther ( not like my Umarex/Walther) and those parts are way expensive.

If I ask someone else to buy it, ( maybe a friend from a different state) and THEY KEEP THE FRAME ONLY would that be a straw purchase? My thought is no, as the serialized part ( frame) is the gun, but I don't want to break any laws while simply getting spare parts.

If I can't do this, I will simply rely on the lifetime warranty. I do prefer to have spares though..

All in all, if you would like to have a fun little gun, try this Walther PPK/S. It is a hoot!!!! One thing I will say, it is certainly the loudest 22lr that I own. Probably due to it's tiny size barrel. When I went to the range on Saturday, I found a bunch of Federal Auto Match ( someone just left them there) so I figured why not try. Even they were extremely loud out of this gun, and cycled it 90%. I bet I can tweak it to run the cheapest of garbage ammo there is!!!!

Ok, I rambled enough. Any thoughts on this parts gun would be appreciated.


Thank you all

Rich
 
I would not bother. Even if you never get the frame if it is your money your friend is using to buy the gun it is a straw purchase. Your friend is also on the edge of not being the "actual buyer" of the firearm even is he keeps the frame. You are in a gray area that for a throw away gun seems not worth the risk.

Umarex/Walther makes tons of 22LR versions of combat caliber guns. They grew the business out of their airsoft stuff IIRC. They are not going away. There is a ton of parts commonality between the different models across their offerings. I would not worry about parts availability in the future. The 22LR mini market is growing once again because ammo is becoming more available.

I wouldn't risk it.
 
Rich,
Why jump through all those hoops just to satisfy what is probably an unjustified paranoia?
Just enjoy your Walther, it will outlast you, especially a rimfire.
Oh yes, have you considered a long range change of address. :)
 
redlightrich said:
Looking at Bersa Thunder's gave me the idea. I see on flea bay multiple ads where someone did just this. They took a Thunder, stripped every part, and are selling it all, without the frame. I am not sure why so many Thunders get demoted to parts only, but there are usually 4 or 5 at most times.
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It is possible that the parts are foreign government surplus, and the guns are being stripped prior to export to dodge ATF import regulations and/or arms export laws in the originating country. AFAIK the ATF only mandates licensing to import frames, receivers, and barrels. This is why many firearm parts dealers sell "parts kits" with the frame, receiver, and barrel either missing or cut into several pieces.
redlightrich said:
If I ask someone else to buy it, ( maybe a friend from a different state) and THEY KEEP THE FRAME ONLY would that be a straw purchase? My thought is no, as the serialized part ( frame) is the gun, but I don't want to break any laws...
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In my informal I-am-not-an-attorney opinion, you're asking for trouble any time you ask someone else to buy a firearm on your behalf using your money, regardless of where the firearm will eventually end up, disassembled or not. I wouldn't try it.
 
Rich,
The cost of each permit is only $2. The next time you apply for any permits get an additional one if you really feel the need for an extra parts gun.
 
Everybody should be aware that this silliness of New Jersey could be yours if you don't keep an eye on your law makers.

That said:

I just have this incredible sad picture of a Walther PPK/s up on blocks and abandoned somewhere...sniff sniff.
 
Let's see. You have fired about 250 rounds (5 boxes of .22 LR) and are worried about the gun wearing out. A larger caliber might eventually wear out the barrel (using FMJ ammo), but a .22 barrel should go 10-20k with no visible wear. The frame (which is the serial numbered part) should last longer.

I don't think I would worry about the gun wearing out.

The reason guns are stripped and the parts sold is normally because the dealer can't legally import or sell the complete gun. Many guns that cannot be imported (GCA '68 rules, automatic weapons, or some other restrictions) are stripped for parts overseas, then the parts imported to repair guns legally in the U.S. It has nothing to do with wear.

Jim
 
There is a large market for full guns minus frame on Gunbroker, and these are typically guns siezed by law enforcement and ordered for destruction. If there is any particular brand or model you see often (Bersa) it's usually because they turn up more often siezed and sentenced for destruction.

In my opinion, if you bought an Umerex gun and you are worried that it won't last forever... your gut instinct is correct. I would suggest falling in love with something of higher quality and rest easy with the knowledge that it may outlive you.
 
I think the best bet is to "burn a permit" and get a spare gun.
Sorting and fitting parts off a hangar queen would be more trouble than it is worth.

I knew a guy who did that. He bought a much higher end gun but since he had a range behind his office and shot every single day, he worried about its durability. About 20 years of daily use later, he traded off his spare, being convinced he would never need it. And he didn't.
 
In my opinion, if you bought an Umerex gun and you are worried that it won't last forever... your gut instinct is correct. I would suggest falling in love with something of higher quality and rest easy with the knowledge that it may outlive you.
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Could not agree more. Have a blast with the UmarexPPK/S, but don't fall in love with it. Buying multiple copies of a zinc gun or a large supply of parts "for the long term" will fall short of satisfying, IMO. If you are completely sold on the design, find a gently used, all-steel Walther PP on GB (pay roughly 2x the price of a new Umarex) that will still be a working and desirable piece of history in 100 years, after you've personally put tens of thousands of rounds through it.

One man's opinion.
 
Just one point of truth, not gun snob speculation.
My cheap plastic and pot metal Walther P22 is well past the 5K point at which I gave up thinking about kerping a round count. Still working just fine, and nothing showing any wear more that it did after the first 100 rounds.
I wouldn't get all OCD about a parts gun.
I would however consider moving to a State that recognises the Constitution of the United States!:D
 
Let's see. You have fired about 250 rounds (5 boxes of .22 LR) and are worried about the gun wearing out. A larger caliber might eventually wear out the barrel (using FMJ ammo), but a .22 barrel should go 10-20k with no visible wear. The frame (which is the serial numbered part) should last longer.
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Heck, I've got easily 50- 60k rounds out of a colt woodsman and it was frequently shot for decades before I got it. It's still one of the most Accurate pistols I own. It was not uncommon to shoot 2-4 BRICKS a weekend.
 
Hello Guys, thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Just so everyone knows why I am concerned about wearing it out, I have went thru over 20k rounds of 22lr this year. Sometimes ( on a beautiful summer day) I can shoot 400 rounds. I do spread this over multiple guns though. I guess everyone is correct. Shoot it, and rely on the warranty. If it isn't available to be fixed, then life goes on.

I thank you for pointing out the potential straw purchase. I will certainly steer clear from that. I will not break a law for any reason. Anyone who live in a free state, please understand the great liberties you are all granted. You need to be vocal, alert and active!!! If not, every state could become the oppressive NJ. Don't believe it? NJ was once free ( prior to 1968). Please let your senators, congressmen, governor know that you value your un-infringed rights!!!!

I am aware the permit is 2 dollars, believe me, the 2 dollars is the least of it. I have to leave work early ( to be at the detective's office during a 3 hour window once a week), after I fill out a 5 page package, including getting 2 reference letters. I need to pay the state police to do a background check ( another 20 dollars) and have them send it to my police station, and wait.............until the phone rings ( a month or so later, sometimes 6 to 8 weeks) and then leave work early to get the 3 hour window again, once a week.

Anyway, I appreciate all your feedback. If I decide I need a spare, I will just "burn" a permit, get a second one, and leave it sit in the safe. No problem.

Another interesting item that I learned recently, is Umarex bought Walther in 1993, and is the parent company. It appears that Umarex makes 22lr pistols for many brands. Such as Colt, Beretta, SW and so on. If you buy the SW MP22lr full size ( not compact) it is made by Walther, by Umarex. So Umarex has some credentials. I will say, their magazines are well made and function very well.

I also am considering moving to Pennsylvania ( 35 miles away) where rights are not infringed at all, except for the big city ( Philidelphia).

Thank you all, and Merry Christmas!!!!!!! Yes I said it.. I do celebrate Christmas and I am proud of it.
 
Not to thread drift, but it is often suggested to "move out of that blasted state!" in gun forums... always sounds good but typically isn't a realistic suggestion.

However, if I was a gun guy and I lived in NJ and a move to PA was 35 miles...
I wouldn't be posting thoughts in a gun forum, I would be packing boxes and making life plans and very seriously becoming the newest resident of the Keystone State.
 
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