Striker Fired

H

Hog Buster

New member
A new reloader showed up at my house a couple of days ago saying he had two problems. One was a failure to fire when he used his auto pistol in double action, the other was for reloading data for WST powder. Of course the failure to fire was the bigee so we got on it first.

His pistol is a Taurus PT 24/7 PRO DS in 9mm. After a bit of questioning I found that it had worked fine double action with factory ammo, but with his reloads didn’t . On the first try double action only maybe 1 in 10 would light off. On the second try all would go bang. All the factory stuff went bang the first time. Checked his reloads, they looked fine and when fired semi-automatic they all went bang. Strange, I thought.

After a bit more messing around with the pistol I noticed something. Striker fired, it released the firing pin a bit earlier with a bit shorter stroke than when the gun was being cocked by the slide, either from recoil or by hand. The stroke was about 1/8 inch shorter when used double action. Maybe the difference in release points was the problem and the firing pin didn’t hit the primer hard enough. OK maybe, but why did it shoot the factory with no problem double action? No trash in the pistol, clean as a whistle. Hmmmmmm?

Well today after burning out many brain cells for a couple days I discovered what I think was his problem.Being a new reloader he had purchased Winchester WSPM primers instead of WSP primers. Of course we couldn’t prove it, he had tossed empty primer boxes. After reloading a few test rounds with the proper primers all went bang double action. I think the problem is solved, at least I hope so.

I’ve heard that magnum primers have a thicker cup than standard, but even after 50+ years of reloading I’ve never been able to confirm that. If that is the case then the release point of this striker fired pistol is really critical.

Has anyone else ever ran across this problem?

His second problem, the reloading data for WST powder is unresolved. I couldn’t find any data for loading 9mm with WST powder.

If I really solved the failure to fire problem I’m happy, at least I’m batting .500.
 
I've heard of people using wst for 9mm.. i have a can and have been looking for the same load data, but have yet to find it.

As for the primers... sounds like you found the solution. I my first guess would have neen the primers were not fully seated.... but if its working, its working.
 
Having used magnum primers in pistol ammo and various guns without issue, I, too, vote for slightly unseated primers in the first batch.
 
The magnum primer might be partially at fault for the issue, but, in my opinion, it comes down to two things:

1. It's a Taurus. (This is not a "Taurus Bash".) Taurus striker-fired pistols are notorious for light strikes. The PT series is one of the worst for light strikes. With some pistols, such as the PT138 that I had for about 10 years, you might have to hit a primer up to TEN times to set it off. Introduce an additional variable and failures to fire are almost guaranteed.

2. Primers are not getting seated properly. He needs to fully seat his primers. If they're seated properly, even the Taurus will set them off on the first hit. If they aren't seated properly, then it takes multiple hits to set off the primer, because the "failures" are actually the firing pin hammering the primer into the primer pocket.
 
1. It's a Taurus. (This is not a "Taurus Bash".) Taurus striker-fired pistols are notorious for light strikes.
Click to expand...

This is not a Taurus Bash?, well it sure sounds like one. This is another example of "let's blame the pistol and not the shooter or reloader."

As the OP stated there were NO issues using factory ammo. All I can say is that I had a PT-140 and it worked perfectly. I think you will find revolver shooters that have also had problems with some makes of mag primers as well. I do not think the gun was to blame.

Jim
 
I would like to add that I own a number of striker fired guns of various manufactures and over time they all developed light strike issues.
Once the firing pin springs were replaced with higher rated springs these issues have never come up again.
Just sayin!
 
This is not a Taurus Bash?, well it sure sounds like one. This is another example of "let's blame the pistol and not the shooter or reloader."

As the OP stated there were NO issues using factory ammo. All I can say is that I had a PT-140 and it worked perfectly. I think you will find revolver shooters that have also had problems with some makes of mag primers as well. I do not think the gun was to blame.

Jim
Click to expand...
I was not blaming the pistol, simply because of the brand on its slide. I was blaming the pistol, because the brand on its family members are well known for light strikes.

Just because the ONE that you owned worked well, does not mean that the entire PT series shares the same trait.
The ONE that I owned and noted as being prone to light strikes was also a single example, but I learned over the years, that it was an extremely common problem with the entire series. It was such a problem with the 1st Gen PTs that Taurus "unofficially" recalled some of them (including the 138 [pre-"pro"] and 138B). -- If you sent it in for repair, they would send a current production equivalent as a replacement; rather than 'repair' the Gen 1.


There's a difference between labeling something as prone to fault, just because of a brand name, and labeling something as prone to fault, because of an abundance of evidence.


Want some light strikes that are not isolated incidents, but representative of the model line as a whole? Here are just the top results from a Google search:
PT 24/7
PT-111
PT-22
PT-145 (Multiple reports in the same thread)
PT 24/7 OSS
PT-99
PT-111
PT-140 / PT-145 (not just noting the ongoing light strike problem, but also using the PT-140 and PT-145 as a definitive example of how endemic light strikes are to the entire PT series on the Taurus forums .... :rolleyes:)
24/7 / PT-145
PT-145SS
And on, and on....


If you want a demonstration of the weakness of Taurus firing pin strikes...
Take your PT-140 and unload it. Point it straight up and drop a pencil down the barrel. Fire it and watch how high the pencil goes.
Now repeat the test with other pistols.
Over 90% of the time, the Taurus will be the worst performer (by a substantial margin) - even when a centerfire Taurus PT is compared to a rimfire competitor.

I have a Ruger P95 that will stick the pencil in the ceiling. ;)
 
OK, the primers appeared to be seated properly, in fact a few seemed to be overdone. So I ruled that out. The pencil test proved inconclusive, double or single action produced the same amount of travel for the pencil. Enough to knock it out of the barrel. Ah yes, it is a Taurus, noted to be prone to problems. That’s the first thing that entered my mind when I heard his dillema. It seems to be working fine at present, but who knows exactly why. Not me, it’s just speculation on my part.

There’s just one thing that keeps popping up in my head. A few years back I got a batch of bad Remington primers, 9 1/2’s, if I remember correctly. Average was about 10 out of 50 that wouldn’t light off, even after repeated strikes. All were loaded in .243 and .270 ammo and drove me crazy for a while. When finally discovered, that problem was quickly solved.

With no packaging and no more of that run of these primers left I’m not sure this is totally solved. I just hope so.

Thanks for your input.....HB
 
even as an "experienced" reloader, i still find myself walking outta the store with magnum pistol primers by accident. i generally don't mind, all my guns, even my Taurus striker fired guns set them off fine so far. CCI makes it hardly noticeable what you are buying. i have always thought Winchester primers to be the softest of the major brands, maybe Remington is softer, but i don't buy those, but i notice more marks/dimples from seating Winchesters than i do CCI, Tula or Federal's primers. that may not make a difference if the cup is thicker or not.

i think the only way to rule out this problem is send him home with a box of "positively" standard primers and see if the same result occurs or not.
 
Some guns has less ignition energy in double action, than in single action. Revolver is a classic example. Always test fire in DA.

It is likely insufficiently seated primers, because second firings are all OK.

He might have replaced the striker spring with lighter one, in pursue of a lighter trigger pull.

-TL
 
You seem to show evdidence showing that some Taurus' do indeed have some kind of history with light strikes. But since the OP said this firearm In question indeed works reliably with factory ammo, I think we can rule out striker being the problem. I would first go for bad seating and then possibly mag primer/rifle or whatever. Unless he has only fired one kind of factory ammo, he has probably run the gammut of different primers from different manufacturers and not had a problem until. I think that in itself speaks volumes, and until the OP verifies correct seating and correct type of primer, this conversation is just pure speculation and Taurus should not be blamed......yet, for another reeloaders issue
 
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