Stress Relief - Worth the time and $

T

The Plainsman

New member
I'm toying with the idea of having my Savage .223 model 12FV cryogenically treated for stress relief to improve grouping. The only question in my mind is whether this gun is worth the time and money to have this done. I like the gun and it's fun and inexpensive to shoot. It's reasonably accurate already - 1-1.5 MOA with me at the trigger. I'm just not quite psyched up to spend the $60-$100 to have this done. Please keep in mind that this is more for fun than serious hunting or competitive target shooting. Your thoughts please? :)

Thanks.
 
well...it certainley couldnt hurt. Besides, it's just money.

I think you've already made up your mind, you just need a little push.

The only way to know for sure is to try it.It may work so well that you want to do it to all of your rifles. The question is, will it tighten up your groups enough to be worth it ? You'll never know until you try.
 
Having read and heard about cryo treating/stress relieving for a few years I had finally asked my former boss about cryo treating, its effects, and his opinion on it. (All of his degrees are in Metallurgy from UConn.)

Basically, he said that the benefits of cryo are still up in the air in the metallurgical world. There are signs that it does help in stablizing the metal formations but the changes are very small. I interpretted this as it could possibly work but the gains from stress relieving from cryo treating may not be worth the amount of time and money paid out for the process. This is, of course, up to the person looking to get the process done.

If you are a serious benchrest shooter and/or hardcore varminter, I think that the process might be of some help. However, if you're like me, just a part time varminter, I think that the resulting change in the performance of the rifle will be negligable and not worth the meager funds available.

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- Ron V.
 
I recently saw a video tape of G. David Tubb, as he was doing some 1,000+ yard shooting. He mentioned several times, the difference between a stock Remington 700 barrel and receiver and a customized Rem 700 receiver and Snyder barrel which had been "stress relieved". Although he didn't mention the cryogenic process specifically, it was pretty apparent that was what he was referring to. If a shooter of his reputation recommended "stress relief" of a barrel for long raange shooting, I wouldn't think there would be much question but what it was a worthwhile process. Me? - I don't know from nuttin' about that, other than what I read.

Whaddya think? :)
 
Two problems with cyro for stress relief - one, I've spoken with very knowledgeable folks on both sides of the topic. PS magazine had an article written by Sierra's chief test engineer that essentially was a toss-up. Maybe yes, maybe no. Jury seems to be firmly split on this issue.

The second is that you can't tell that the process was applied. There is no visual change.

Giz
 
I don't know details about cryo treatment effectiviness, but this method will not
work in every case. I do know that as a rule,
50-70 years old rifles can be extremely accurate. I built a couple of MN91/30 based scoped custom rifles, and both seems to be at least 1 MOA shooters. 1936 and 1937 Tula made MNs were used. That makes them at least 60 years old, and I guess, their barreled actions are releaved from ANY stress COMPLETELY. I have no other explanation of surprising accuracy of these old rifles but
to think that "old metal" is a primary reason.
 
According to one metalurgist with PhD that I happen to know, it does nothing for accuracy, it does prolong the life of the bbl however. So if you are doing type of shooting where acceptable accuracy drops off after 3000 rounds, and it costs you $300 or more to rebarrel, then it's definitely worth it.
 
I have a 12fv and it shoot great. With the right load(not a reload but an ultra max reload 55grain fmj) it will shoot 3/4" group at a 100 yard. The one thing I have found is that it is very sensitive to different loads. If you haven't yet try some different loads. it is cheaper than any work to barrel.
 
I suggest going to the TFL archives and doing some searching about "bedding". Since this is mostly personal labor, with little or even no money involved... :)

Often, a properly bedded stock will bring a rifle into the sub-moa class, where before it was shooting one moa to two...

FWIW, Art
 
Thanks, Ya'll;

I think I'll just pass on the cryogenics for now and as suggested, work on loads, bedding, and other "tricks of the trade" that I can handle myself. When I'm all done with those things, I may reconsider the cryogenics, but there's a lot I can do before I get to that.

Thanks again to all of you for your input.

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If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?
 
Plainsman, as you stated, and as djm suggested, other loads should be the first thing you try. Your Savage should be shooting better than that with other loads.
 
I had a Win. M70 .223 cryo-ed and it went from a .5 MOA shooter to 1.5 with the same load. Needed to work up new loads but never got to where I was before I sold it. The barrels life expectancy during my ownership was definitely improved as I no longer wanted to shoot it as much.

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"Keep shootin till they quit floppin"
The Wife 2/2000
 
Thanks, mcshot. If there was still any doubt in my mind, you just removed it.

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If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?
 
FWIW, I had a friend who owned one of the first AR's in the A4 config that I'd ever personally seen. He's a high power shooter, and had seen the handwriting on the wall, so he was quick to convert from his M1A to the -15. He is a lefty, so he had made mods to the receiver so that he could rack the bolt from the left (a swiss cheese receiver!) Of course, he had all the other High power goodies (scope, aperture sights, etc)

The rifle as is would shoot 1 inch groups all day at 100 yards - plenty good for high power matches. But being the perfectionist, he wanted better. So away to the Cryo guys he sent his piece. When it came back, he had to work up a different load for it, using the then new 80 some odd grain VLD's that he would eventually use.

The bottom line is that he was able to shrink his groups almost by half. Even I could manage an inch and change at 200 looking through his scope.

So, here's at least one anecdote where the cryo stress relief was beneficial. I think that if this is to work correctly, you have to make a total commitment to getting the best out of your weapon. One cannot approach it like the wanna be street racer who drops a 500 cubic inch screamer into the front of a rusted out Nova, and expects to dust everybody. This process will most like work best for the benchrest shooter, or high power shooter who expects the absolute best accuracy from his equipment - and is willing to invest the time and money to tune it to those levels. Anyway, it's food for thought!

Good luck
 
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