Straw purchase, is this a definition?

J

jefnvk

New member
At the gunshow I went to this weekend, I was buying a stripped AR lower. The guy wouldn't drop tax, or wiggle on the price, which was fine. What struck me as odd though, is that I was $2 short. Fine, 'hey brother, you got a few bucks to spare?' 'sure'. All the sudden, the guy got interested. He seemed adament that because I was borrowing two dollars to cover tax from my brother, he couldn't sell because it was a straw purchase.

I can understand his concern, being at a gun show, and long story short I went to an ATM and got the money, but what do you think? I'm not to sure that my brother loaning me two dollars to cover tax covers a straw purchase in any way.

The other option he said I could do was to have both of us fill out the yellow form, but since my bro was 16, that wouldn't work. How would that work anyways, because I was under the assumption that a NICS check had to be accompanied by a purchase, and he obviously can't sell the same gun to two people, can he?
 
If the weapon was for you, and you were filling out the 4473, and gave no indication that the firearm was for anyone except you, then no, it was not a "straw purchase" and the dealer was just CHA.
 
You should have asked him if he allows credit card purchases. If you buy a gun on credit, your bank/cc company might have a claim against your new gun until you pay your monthy bill...
 
I am not a lawyer but I believe that the dealer is technically correct. The dealer cannot knownly sell you a gun if you are purchasing it with someone elses money. The only exception is purchasing a gun for a minor.

If you are filling out the NICS form you must be the 100% purchaser of the gun. If he sees your friend give you money for the purchase he has grounds not to complete the transaction. The actuall dollar amount does not matter. In this senerio it seems rediculious because it was only $2 but legally it is the same if you had asked for $200.

Rellascout
 
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Not a straw purchase IMO. You are buying the gun for your personal use. I wonder how the FFL would react to a "corporate" purchase where a whole group of people are buying the firearm.
 
OK, I figured he was just CHA, as I am sure that gunshows have plenty of undercover people watching the dealing.
 
Not a straw purchase.

Now, if the friend lending the $2 was a convicted felon, or a 'prohibited person', known to the dealer then I'd say the dealer was being wise. I doubt that this was the case.

Next time, take off your shirt, belt or shoes and sell them to your friend for $2. Then it's your money.

John
 
The way I understand straw purchases (not that I'm an expert by any stretch of the imagination) is that it is when a person legally able to purchase the firearm, does so for the purpose of giving it to a person who cannot legally own said firearm. If your brother had said, "hey I like that gun, would you buy it for me?" and you tried to purchase the gun for him, regardless of whether he gave you money or not, that would be in violation of the law.
 
Smokinron

Something similar happened to the boys & I at the last gun show we attended. #2 found a good deal on 500 rds of .223 and told the guy "OK, I'll take it. but then I told him I would have to physically hand the dealer the $$ since #2 was under 18. Dealer didnt have a problem with that.
some people go to extremes to CYA... :confused:
 
"If your brother had said, "hey I like that gun, would you buy it for me?" and you tried to purchase the gun for him, regardless of whether he gave you money or not, that would be in violation of the law."

You can do it if you use your own money. Look at item 1 (or section 1, or paragraph 1, or whatever it's called) on the back of the federal form. It says that gifts are legal.

John
 
I don't understand how that is legal since a straw purchase is basically buying a firearm for someone unable to purchase it on their own. I know there are exceptions like a parent can give their child a firearm, but I thought it was restricted to a parent or legal guardian only.
 
There are "museums" and "dealers" at gun shows... Dealers are people looking to and willing to sell guns. Museums are people who have guns, but for some reason or other aren't willing to sell, usually have outlandish prices and are unwilling to dicker. Sounds like you found a museum and that is the deffinition I find here - a straw deal I don't think this was except by the slightest over streached deffinition possible.

Using the same deffinition - a credit card purchase isn't possible either. After all the money isn't yours, it's some company's that is giving it to you on loan. You even pay interest on what you owe - the money is thiers, not yours until you repay it.... Straw deal? :rolleyes:
 
I don't understand how that is legal since a straw purchase is basically buying a firearm for someone unable to purchase it on their own. I know there are exceptions like a parent can give their child a firearm, but I thought it was restricted to a parent or legal guardian only.
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What is illegal is filling out the 4473 when buying a gun for someone who cannot own one. You are lying on a federal document. Anyone that can legally buy a gun can take their own money, buy a gun and give it as a gift to another person, provided it is legal for that person to possess the firearm.
 
To me this is a matter of economics.

For $2 I would have walked away from the booth and said well thanks for your time. If he doesnt come calling me back, it wasnt meant to be. $2 is not going to make or break him. I mean its a gunshow right? Arent you supposed to be able to wheel and deal? I wouldnt have asked anyone I was with to give me their money anway. I hate owing people money.
 
yorec - plenty of museums there. Even some with the signs that said 'private collection - not for sale' (never got those people).

I did walk away, but came back after realizing how long it would be before I got another chance to buy the reciever. It would have been a good month and a half before I got back home to even put in an order, and I understand that most of teh manufacturers are backlogged a few weeks to many months. I kinda wanted to get parts rolling in before summer came around.
 
The way I understand straw purchases (not that I'm an expert by any stretch of the imagination) is that it is when a person legally able to purchase the firearm, does so for the purpose of giving it to a person who cannot legally own said firearm.
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Not true. It doesn't matter is the person can legally purchase the firearm or not. If they just don't want a paper trail to themselves through the 4473 but could have legally bought the gun themselves, it is still a straw purchase. BATF gave that exact scenario in a recent newsletter.
 
Here's Important Notice 1 from the back of the 4473:

"WARNING-The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift. Any individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift, but who completes this form, violates the law. Example: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out the form, he will violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift violates the law by maintaining a false ATF F[orm] 4473."
 
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