I am wondering about the stopping power of certain handguns. Will the small Kel-Tec .32 stop a would be attacker with one shot, two, more? Does stopping power depend a lot on the type of round being used? Of course, it depends into what part of the body the round is fired, but I am wondering if a shot to the leg with a .32 would be enough. I'm rather new to this subject. The last weapon I fired was an M-16 in the military. Some time ago the Kel-Tec was recommended on this board as one of the smallest handguns available. I'm just wondering about its effectiveness. Please elaborate. BTW, your forum is most interesting. You guys (gals too?) take the subject seriously and I enjoy reading all the knowledgable posts and replies. Thanks in advance for your comments.
Stopping power.
- Thread starter helleberg
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Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Greetings, sir. "Stopping power" is a widely-discussed topic with varying opinions that's widely discussed here and elsewhere.
As you note in your post, placement is a prime consideration in whether or not a round will stop an agressor. No one disputes that.
One group generally favors the largest caliber and weight bullet one can handle and going for deep penetration. They support the idea that loss of consciousness from blood loss or a hit to the central nervous system are what does the job...and there's merit in this concept. Another group favors high velocity, expanding rounds, usually of the mid-range calibers, ie 9mm, .38 Spec, etc and support the idea of limited penetration to certain depths, believing that beyond such, much kinetic energy is wasted and the public could be endangered by exiting projectiles from the target bad guy. Actually, both groups favor penetration limits, but differ (slightly) on what that depth is. And there are beliefs that combine the two I've described as well as others. But, from whichever camp (no pun intended) you draw your conclusions, I suspect that no one will recommend shooting in the leg to "stop" as being capable of physically halting a determined foe. Also, most will tell you that while better than nothing, .32acp is not a first choice as a "stopper." I personally don't care to go smaller than .38 Spec and much prefer a hot-loaded 9mm or .45acp. That said, my wife, who is not a shooter, is very recoil sensitive. Right now, her defensive arm is a Walther PP in .32 acp. The weapon's loaded with Hornady 60 gr XTPs as I have concerns about too low penetration with the generally praised WW Silvertip in that caliber. Yes, your .32 can certainly kill, but whether or not it can reliably be counted upon to stop a determined foe without very, very good placement is for greater minds than mind. Best....and shoot for center mass if you have to shoot.
As you note in your post, placement is a prime consideration in whether or not a round will stop an agressor. No one disputes that.
One group generally favors the largest caliber and weight bullet one can handle and going for deep penetration. They support the idea that loss of consciousness from blood loss or a hit to the central nervous system are what does the job...and there's merit in this concept. Another group favors high velocity, expanding rounds, usually of the mid-range calibers, ie 9mm, .38 Spec, etc and support the idea of limited penetration to certain depths, believing that beyond such, much kinetic energy is wasted and the public could be endangered by exiting projectiles from the target bad guy. Actually, both groups favor penetration limits, but differ (slightly) on what that depth is. And there are beliefs that combine the two I've described as well as others. But, from whichever camp (no pun intended) you draw your conclusions, I suspect that no one will recommend shooting in the leg to "stop" as being capable of physically halting a determined foe. Also, most will tell you that while better than nothing, .32acp is not a first choice as a "stopper." I personally don't care to go smaller than .38 Spec and much prefer a hot-loaded 9mm or .45acp. That said, my wife, who is not a shooter, is very recoil sensitive. Right now, her defensive arm is a Walther PP in .32 acp. The weapon's loaded with Hornady 60 gr XTPs as I have concerns about too low penetration with the generally praised WW Silvertip in that caliber. Yes, your .32 can certainly kill, but whether or not it can reliably be counted upon to stop a determined foe without very, very good placement is for greater minds than mind. Best....and shoot for center mass if you have to shoot.
The statement made by Mr. Camp says it all. You can't get any better explanation than that. Only other thing I can recommend is either bringing a folding knife and/or learn some basic martial arts as added insurance. Don't rely totally on your pistol to save the day. If you do then once you unload your whole clip and the guy keeps on coming then tendency is that you're just going to stand there eyes wide waiting for the inevitable. You were in the military so I am sure you are capable of whipping some 
.
By the way the Kel Tec is a good gun when used in an ankle holster for deep concealment. Am interested in buying one myself. Keep safe!
. By the way the Kel Tec is a good gun when used in an ankle holster for deep concealment. Am interested in buying one myself. Keep safe!
I strongly endorse Mr. Camp's explanation. It certainly reflects the consensus of TFL posters to the MANY threads generally concerning this subject. That said, I would add one additional point: We all agree PLACEMENT is the crucial variable; however, achieving precise aim-point accuracy is much more difficult in any real-life defensive situation than in any practice or training environment. This suggests that a .32 may be even more marginal than one would expect based on "range results".
Will Beararms
New member
Agreed: there is no guarantee that ANY handgun caliber will do the job 100% of the time. That having been said become dangerously proficient with whatever you choose and learn to put the bullet in a vital area------like right between the eyes of a bad guy.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Chuck Ames
New member
Amen,
I'd just like to add that everyone seems to acknowledge that there is a psychological component to one-shot stops. Essentially, the bad guy, just gives up, so "street results" can be very skewed. That doesn't even begin to get into the problems of where in the thoracic cavity, the subject was hit, and which blood vessels were severed, organs destroyed, etc.
There are primarily two methods of stopping an attacker: Hemorraghic shock and damage/destruction of the Central Nervous System. CNS damage is usually an "instant" stop, while hemorraghic shock (shock induced by a loss of blood pressure/volume)is relatively unpredictable. How long does it take for someone to bleed out. If you cut off all the oxygen to your brain, like some of my stupid friends did in 9th grade, or like the carotid restraint (aka the sleeper hold), it still takes a few seconds to put the guy out, and that is with the blood flow being essentially stopped, not just weakened by a few holes in the chest.
A .32 is very little gun to bring to a fight. If it's all you have, then it's better than nothing, but in my opinion, you'd do better with a Glock 26 or 27. One of the problems with small weapons is the short sight radius, which can make an accurate shot difficult, even on the range. Under stress, it gets worse. If your defensive plan only includes gunfights at conversation distances then it would probably be ok. If you are limited in what you can carry, then of course, it's better than a head-butt.
Another thing, is that you may have problems with penetration if an arm or heavy clothing are in the way, which is one of the reasons for the International Wound Ballistics Association www.iwba.org recommendation of 12-18 inches of penetration in 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin.
The best site I've found on wound ballistics is Shawn Dodson's www.firearmstactical.com web site.
I was a true believer in the Marshall Sanow one shot stop statistics and the light and fast bullet crowd. While stationed at Fort Lewis, I carried 115gr. CorBon, because it rated highly and Mas Ayoob recommended it. When I read the information at Firearms Tactical that refuted their "statistics," I went through withdrawal symptoms as my mind was changed, and anyone who knows me and how opinionated I am, can attest to the difficulty of that task. I'd recommend you check out Shawn's site and make up your own mind.
As far as overpenetration goes, someone made the observation that it is really a non-issue, since most shots in gunfights tend to miss the target anyways. Not that such a thing is worthy of emulating. As the good Colonel mentioned earlier wisely preaches, "identify your target and know what is behind it!"
As a final note, I'd suggest you read as many stories of gunfights as you can. Chuck Taylor used to publish a series in one of the gun rags, and even Mas Ayoob had a decent book, which was a compilation of gunfights (although he may have gotten some of the details wrong). I'd highly recommend Jim Cirillo's book "Guns, Gunfights, and Bullets." My reason for suggesting such a morbid research project is it graphically illustrates how ineffective even larger calibre handgun cartridges are against a determined adversary. During the Calibrepress Street Survival seminar, we were shown a tape of a subject who was shot 5 times during an extended period with .40 ammunition. While being shot, he was still throwing large car parts from the back of a truck, and jumped down, ran around, and finally suffering from hemorraghic shock, just collapsed in mid-stride. If I remember, this occurred over a period of 10-20 seconds.
I think if you look into it, you'll want to carry the biggest gun (in the smallest package?) that you can handle.
Cheers,
Chuck
[This message has been edited by Chuck Ames (edited October 29, 1999).]
I'd just like to add that everyone seems to acknowledge that there is a psychological component to one-shot stops. Essentially, the bad guy, just gives up, so "street results" can be very skewed. That doesn't even begin to get into the problems of where in the thoracic cavity, the subject was hit, and which blood vessels were severed, organs destroyed, etc.
There are primarily two methods of stopping an attacker: Hemorraghic shock and damage/destruction of the Central Nervous System. CNS damage is usually an "instant" stop, while hemorraghic shock (shock induced by a loss of blood pressure/volume)is relatively unpredictable. How long does it take for someone to bleed out. If you cut off all the oxygen to your brain, like some of my stupid friends did in 9th grade, or like the carotid restraint (aka the sleeper hold), it still takes a few seconds to put the guy out, and that is with the blood flow being essentially stopped, not just weakened by a few holes in the chest.
A .32 is very little gun to bring to a fight. If it's all you have, then it's better than nothing, but in my opinion, you'd do better with a Glock 26 or 27. One of the problems with small weapons is the short sight radius, which can make an accurate shot difficult, even on the range. Under stress, it gets worse. If your defensive plan only includes gunfights at conversation distances then it would probably be ok. If you are limited in what you can carry, then of course, it's better than a head-butt.
Another thing, is that you may have problems with penetration if an arm or heavy clothing are in the way, which is one of the reasons for the International Wound Ballistics Association www.iwba.org recommendation of 12-18 inches of penetration in 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin.
The best site I've found on wound ballistics is Shawn Dodson's www.firearmstactical.com web site.
I was a true believer in the Marshall Sanow one shot stop statistics and the light and fast bullet crowd. While stationed at Fort Lewis, I carried 115gr. CorBon, because it rated highly and Mas Ayoob recommended it. When I read the information at Firearms Tactical that refuted their "statistics," I went through withdrawal symptoms as my mind was changed, and anyone who knows me and how opinionated I am, can attest to the difficulty of that task. I'd recommend you check out Shawn's site and make up your own mind.
As far as overpenetration goes, someone made the observation that it is really a non-issue, since most shots in gunfights tend to miss the target anyways. Not that such a thing is worthy of emulating. As the good Colonel mentioned earlier wisely preaches, "identify your target and know what is behind it!"
As a final note, I'd suggest you read as many stories of gunfights as you can. Chuck Taylor used to publish a series in one of the gun rags, and even Mas Ayoob had a decent book, which was a compilation of gunfights (although he may have gotten some of the details wrong). I'd highly recommend Jim Cirillo's book "Guns, Gunfights, and Bullets." My reason for suggesting such a morbid research project is it graphically illustrates how ineffective even larger calibre handgun cartridges are against a determined adversary. During the Calibrepress Street Survival seminar, we were shown a tape of a subject who was shot 5 times during an extended period with .40 ammunition. While being shot, he was still throwing large car parts from the back of a truck, and jumped down, ran around, and finally suffering from hemorraghic shock, just collapsed in mid-stride. If I remember, this occurred over a period of 10-20 seconds.
I think if you look into it, you'll want to carry the biggest gun (in the smallest package?) that you can handle.
Cheers,
Chuck
[This message has been edited by Chuck Ames (edited October 29, 1999).]
hankrearden98
New member
One of the great things about working in a prison is that you get to talk to alot of people who have been shot.
Today I observed what appeared to be old bullet wounds on an inmate who is slightly over 6ft. tall, around 230lbs., and very fit. Several years ago during a drug deal gone bad, he was shot five times with .45ACP ball ammo at about five yards. One shot fully penetrated his left hand; one his left bicep; one his left lung; one cliped his Aorta; and one entered his right side damaging his upper intestine, liver and destroying a kidney. He said it felt as if he had been cut open and the wounds burned with a hot poker. Stopping power of the mighty .45? Well, he said that he made it to his car and drove himself to a hospital about ten minutes away, exited his car and collapsed at the entrance to the emergency room. This occurred while he was operating with one lung and most of his blood was filling up his body cavity. Overpenetration? Of the five ball rounds, the only two that exited were the hand shot and the bicep shot. The effective shots all stayed in his body and, apparently penetrated just deeply enough to be effective. Would a 185gr. JHP that actually expanded have penetrated deeply enough to be effective? Would any weight JHP that actually expanded? Would any bullet lighter than 230gr.? It appears that in this case ball was the most effective, and it didn't overpenetrate.
Today I observed what appeared to be old bullet wounds on an inmate who is slightly over 6ft. tall, around 230lbs., and very fit. Several years ago during a drug deal gone bad, he was shot five times with .45ACP ball ammo at about five yards. One shot fully penetrated his left hand; one his left bicep; one his left lung; one cliped his Aorta; and one entered his right side damaging his upper intestine, liver and destroying a kidney. He said it felt as if he had been cut open and the wounds burned with a hot poker. Stopping power of the mighty .45? Well, he said that he made it to his car and drove himself to a hospital about ten minutes away, exited his car and collapsed at the entrance to the emergency room. This occurred while he was operating with one lung and most of his blood was filling up his body cavity. Overpenetration? Of the five ball rounds, the only two that exited were the hand shot and the bicep shot. The effective shots all stayed in his body and, apparently penetrated just deeply enough to be effective. Would a 185gr. JHP that actually expanded have penetrated deeply enough to be effective? Would any weight JHP that actually expanded? Would any bullet lighter than 230gr.? It appears that in this case ball was the most effective, and it didn't overpenetrate.
I think a good way to look at this is to ask yourself the question. will a shot from a 32 stop me?
If you are the one doing the crime and you are the one getting shot by a .32 (or any round for that matter) what are the odds you are going to continue to carry out your crime? In most home defense cases you wouldnt even need a real gun. The sound from a cap gun would scare the beejesus out of most robbers leaving them fleeing in the night. Of course if someone is in your home you dont want them fleeing you want them dead !
Again i go back to the question. Is a 32 enough to stop someone that is a deadly threat to you or your family ? I know if i was the one doing the crime and you shot me with a .32 chances are just the impact alone would be enough to take the wind out of me leaving me defenseless. Talking to people that have been shot in the chest say it feels like a sledgehammer. If this is the case just about any round will do.(taken you hit the person in the chest) Most concealed carry weapons of choice is not a .32 but instead something with a bit more bite. .32's are normally chosen as backups to the more deadly primary defense gun. of course the choice is yours.
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TIM : )
If you are the one doing the crime and you are the one getting shot by a .32 (or any round for that matter) what are the odds you are going to continue to carry out your crime? In most home defense cases you wouldnt even need a real gun. The sound from a cap gun would scare the beejesus out of most robbers leaving them fleeing in the night. Of course if someone is in your home you dont want them fleeing you want them dead !
Again i go back to the question. Is a 32 enough to stop someone that is a deadly threat to you or your family ? I know if i was the one doing the crime and you shot me with a .32 chances are just the impact alone would be enough to take the wind out of me leaving me defenseless. Talking to people that have been shot in the chest say it feels like a sledgehammer. If this is the case just about any round will do.(taken you hit the person in the chest) Most concealed carry weapons of choice is not a .32 but instead something with a bit more bite. .32's are normally chosen as backups to the more deadly primary defense gun. of course the choice is yours.
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TIM : )
Edmund Rowe
New member
I'm going to stick my neck out with some
opinion I don't have much to back with other than anecdotal stuff I've read.
Most every real gunfight I've read about seems fairly universal that besides a rather rare hit to the central nervous system, the major factor in a handgun stopping a fight seems to be when the other guy gives up on his own volition. The handgun wound(s) helped convince him, but the problem is some people react differently to pain:
1) OUCH! I give up!
2) You shot me??? You @#$%&*!!
3) (20 minutes later) Hey, I'm bleeding.
Of course, this isn't just limited to handguns. Reading Jim Cirillo's book, I see that apparently a man in "fight" mode can be very VERY tough to put down. He describes perps soaking up multiple shotgun blasts at close range and still fighting.
So I guess my comment is, a .32 will stop the fight easily if the bad guy is a "Ouch! I give up!" type of weenie. So will any handgun.
If the perp is a "fight mode" type of guy, then the only QUICK way to put him down is a good shot that shuts the CPU down. In this case, your ability to hit the ocular region and training is the key.
If it was me, I'd put some serious effort into training as it's the man, not the gun that wins the fight.
Edmund
opinion I don't have much to back with other than anecdotal stuff I've read.
Most every real gunfight I've read about seems fairly universal that besides a rather rare hit to the central nervous system, the major factor in a handgun stopping a fight seems to be when the other guy gives up on his own volition. The handgun wound(s) helped convince him, but the problem is some people react differently to pain:
1) OUCH! I give up!
2) You shot me??? You @#$%&*!!
3) (20 minutes later) Hey, I'm bleeding.
Of course, this isn't just limited to handguns. Reading Jim Cirillo's book, I see that apparently a man in "fight" mode can be very VERY tough to put down. He describes perps soaking up multiple shotgun blasts at close range and still fighting.
So I guess my comment is, a .32 will stop the fight easily if the bad guy is a "Ouch! I give up!" type of weenie. So will any handgun.
If the perp is a "fight mode" type of guy, then the only QUICK way to put him down is a good shot that shuts the CPU down. In this case, your ability to hit the ocular region and training is the key.
If it was me, I'd put some serious effort into training as it's the man, not the gun that wins the fight.
Edmund
Anthony and the 41 Magnum
Inactive
In my opinion, you should first select a caliber/pistol combination that gives the best accuracy, controlability, and tactical capability in your hands.
THEN select the best antipersonnel load in that caliber that will do the most damage to the target.
Remember, if you don't hit something important, then the baddest @ss load in the world won't do you any good whistling past the cretin as he draws a bead on you.
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- Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum)
"Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero
THEN select the best antipersonnel load in that caliber that will do the most damage to the target.
Remember, if you don't hit something important, then the baddest @ss load in the world won't do you any good whistling past the cretin as he draws a bead on you.
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- Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum)
"Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero
I have read a lot about "stopping power" and there seem to be a lot of differing opinions on the subject. I think one fact that is often overlooked in this subject though is the safety issue, both for the person carrying his "one-shot" stopper, and those innocent people that could be hurt in a gunfight.
Considering that the probablity that most people have of ever getting into a gunfight is quite small, I think carrying the safest handgun that one can find is of paramount importance. Remembering Murphy's law that if something CAN go wrong, it WILL go wrong, carrying guns that have no safeties, or poor safety mechanisms must be considered carefully. If there is a greater liklihood that you may shoot your leg(or worse) than ever stopping a would-be assailant, maybe concealed carry is not such a great idea.
Likewise, if you are carrying ammo that overpentrates, or you are a lousy shot where it might be just as likely you would injure an innocent bystander as an attacker, concealed carry may not be a good option.
Just ideas to ponder.
Considering that the probablity that most people have of ever getting into a gunfight is quite small, I think carrying the safest handgun that one can find is of paramount importance. Remembering Murphy's law that if something CAN go wrong, it WILL go wrong, carrying guns that have no safeties, or poor safety mechanisms must be considered carefully. If there is a greater liklihood that you may shoot your leg(or worse) than ever stopping a would-be assailant, maybe concealed carry is not such a great idea.
Likewise, if you are carrying ammo that overpentrates, or you are a lousy shot where it might be just as likely you would injure an innocent bystander as an attacker, concealed carry may not be a good option.
Just ideas to ponder.
You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to carry and stop a goblin, either get a major caliber belt pistol in 45 ACP or 10mm or be prepared to do head shots, exclusively. I think when your adrenalin gets pumped up, you won't want to aim anywhere but center mass, so I recommend the first alternative.
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I saw this quote on the Internet; "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and
complain, and most fools do".
Benjamin Franklin
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I saw this quote on the Internet; "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and
complain, and most fools do".
Benjamin Franklin
I strongly recommend the sites listed by Chuck Ames, above. The Firearms Tactical Inst. is an outstanding sight to gather the facts, and then make an educated decision.
Being new to this industry, I have noticed how many opinions we all have developed, as is the case with any field of interest. That's great, this is America. But, opinions are best when they are built on wisdom.
[This message has been edited by David (edited November 05, 1999).]
Being new to this industry, I have noticed how many opinions we all have developed, as is the case with any field of interest. That's great, this is America. But, opinions are best when they are built on wisdom.
[This message has been edited by David (edited November 05, 1999).]
There's lots of opinions on this,here mine...
Consider a ladder of effectiveness in stopping ability,top to bottom.
Big holes, center mass.
Big holes, elsewhere.
Small holes,center mass.
Small holes,elsewhere.
Scare him with the noise as you miss...
IMO, carrying the biggest caliber one can hit with(and hide)is the key to longevity, allowing lots of practice and the use of common sense....
Consider a ladder of effectiveness in stopping ability,top to bottom.
Big holes, center mass.
Big holes, elsewhere.
Small holes,center mass.
Small holes,elsewhere.
Scare him with the noise as you miss...
IMO, carrying the biggest caliber one can hit with(and hide)is the key to longevity, allowing lots of practice and the use of common sense....
I think it's a mistake to rely too much on paper ballistics charts...mebbe that should be bullistics... I fondly remember long hours in my teenage youth poring over the Remington catalog with its ballistics information... Even then, although the automatic pistol calibers came in strictly hardnose, the 45 Auto yielded a measly 369 ft. lbs. by the Remington chart, why anyone could see the 9mm Luger had nearly that much energy! It has to be just as powerful, right? I mean, I've seen it in writing, lots of times... right there in black and white!
The Germans have a proverb: Experience beats book learning.
I will admit that any commonly carried pistol cartridge is problematic against a dedicated attacker, but the fat 230 grain slug gives the very best stopping power available in an auto pistol as proven by countless applications by the military throughout this century. The 9mm Luger has proven to be almost utterly worthless unless it is used to pistol whip the assailant, then it has nearly the same effectiveness as the 45 chambering in a similar sized pistol (see A Rifleman Went to War, for testimony on the 9mm).
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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
The Germans have a proverb: Experience beats book learning.
I will admit that any commonly carried pistol cartridge is problematic against a dedicated attacker, but the fat 230 grain slug gives the very best stopping power available in an auto pistol as proven by countless applications by the military throughout this century. The 9mm Luger has proven to be almost utterly worthless unless it is used to pistol whip the assailant, then it has nearly the same effectiveness as the 45 chambering in a similar sized pistol (see A Rifleman Went to War, for testimony on the 9mm).
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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
cornered rat
Moderator
I own a P32 #6xx and found it to be reliable and smallenough for its stated purpose. I also trained a lot with it and tested it on various targets.
The gun points very well for the first shot, but tends to shift in my hand on rapid fire. 7-8m is the longest shot I'd take with it under combat conditions, though that will improve as I get more used to it.
Penetration was tested relative to other ammo, so results are a SWAG. I'd say that I would expect someone shot eight times at the center of mass with that .32 to require medical attention or die within an hour or two. I would not expect them to die or give up right there and then...but they might slow down in chasing me
The 32acp is MUCH more potent than a .22 lr, partly becuase jacketed bullets stay together better. However, it doesn't hold a candle to even target .38 loads, IMO. If you can carry a .38, do so...but for the rest, it improves much on .22 and .25 which were the other mousegun choices.
I am of opinion that having ANY gun, even a Baby Browning .25 would be a tremendous help, perhaps good enough for 75% of the encounters. Exchanging that .25/32 for a .45 would provide the other 25% -- IF POSSIBLE, which often it isn't.
If I had to rely on my P32, I would probably fire the whole magazine plus the already chambered round, then reload and be ready to shoot some more. That assumes no possibility of retreat...even if I had a 12ga shotun, I'd prefer to retreat...the more I use guns, the more I am aware of how many things can go wrong in a firefight.
However, the P32 is IMHO, the best mousegun out there. It is just that 32acp is not a 45acp and will never be as effective...except when the 32 is with you and the 45 is at home
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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos
[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited November 06, 1999).]
The gun points very well for the first shot, but tends to shift in my hand on rapid fire. 7-8m is the longest shot I'd take with it under combat conditions, though that will improve as I get more used to it.
Penetration was tested relative to other ammo, so results are a SWAG. I'd say that I would expect someone shot eight times at the center of mass with that .32 to require medical attention or die within an hour or two. I would not expect them to die or give up right there and then...but they might slow down in chasing me
The 32acp is MUCH more potent than a .22 lr, partly becuase jacketed bullets stay together better. However, it doesn't hold a candle to even target .38 loads, IMO. If you can carry a .38, do so...but for the rest, it improves much on .22 and .25 which were the other mousegun choices.
I am of opinion that having ANY gun, even a Baby Browning .25 would be a tremendous help, perhaps good enough for 75% of the encounters. Exchanging that .25/32 for a .45 would provide the other 25% -- IF POSSIBLE, which often it isn't.
If I had to rely on my P32, I would probably fire the whole magazine plus the already chambered round, then reload and be ready to shoot some more. That assumes no possibility of retreat...even if I had a 12ga shotun, I'd prefer to retreat...the more I use guns, the more I am aware of how many things can go wrong in a firefight.
However, the P32 is IMHO, the best mousegun out there. It is just that 32acp is not a 45acp and will never be as effective...except when the 32 is with you and the 45 is at home
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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos
[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited November 06, 1999).]
I second Amprecon's endorsement of a Kahr.
With the help of a new acquaintance (he loan-
ed me his), I was able to try out an MK40 and
was I ever impressed. It was accurate, the
recoil was quite manageable, and it fit well
in my hand. I'll be picking one up in Jan.
2000, after all of the EOY expenses have been
tallied.
Good luck in your search.
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
With the help of a new acquaintance (he loan-
ed me his), I was able to try out an MK40 and
was I ever impressed. It was accurate, the
recoil was quite manageable, and it fit well
in my hand. I'll be picking one up in Jan.
2000, after all of the EOY expenses have been
tallied.
Good luck in your search.
DAL
------------------
Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
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