Stopping Power Explained

L

LICCW

New member
I see deer hunters posting about hitting a deer witha .308 to the heart and it keeps running, etc. I'm no hunter, just a guy looking to stay safe at work and the home. Can anyone tell me what the deal is? I hear some guys saying 9mm are too small, nothing less than .45 will do, but I look at a .380 and think I don't want to get hit by that. What are the best defensive rounds? How many shots will it take to stop a guy from throttling me and my wife?
 
How many shots ?? The rule is to shoot and continue to shoot until the BG is no longer a threat.Only good hits count and there is no sure thing. ...The rounds that work best on the street in actual shootouts are 45acp, 40S&W, 357sig, and 9mm+P.
 
The S&W is a five shot. I'm getting all shots in the target, but they are erratically placed. its not like I shoot the first two to point of aim and then aget sloppy. Sometimes its like that, but other times, i'll hit to the shoulder (clavicle area) and then get two to the heart, followed by one or two in the stomach to give you an idea. I'm thrilled I could stop an attacker, but the lack of accuracy bothers me. It's definitely not the gun or the ammo. My father ( a retired cop) is dead on with it.
 
One other thing. I have a Glock 27 and I'm pretty good with it. I have a lot more control with it than the S&W. Could the difference in triggers be throwing me off?
 
Sorry, I forgot to explain something else. I'm using a .357 S&W and am having control issues. I wondered if a smaller caliber would be better, but I see to hve no issues with my Glock 27 which is .40. I'm wondering if I should be rethinking caliber based on the results I have from shooting, but am afraid of not stopping an assailant. Sorry my posts are all jumbled. Newbie stupidity.
 
You for sure want to carry the gun you are most comfortable/accurate with, which seems to be the Glock, which is a great choice for a defense weapon anyway. It sounds like you may have a flinching problem with the .357. This not unusual, especially if you are fairly new to shooting. It could also be as simple as it not fitting in your hand. Different grips or even different gun may be the answer. And of course one thing that can compensate for even a "bad fit" is PRACTICE. Everyone will find some guns they can just shoot better than others, but with practice an experienced shooter can usually do well enough with just about any gun. Of course there can still be that one gun you just can't get along with. Life aint perfect!! :)
 
take a look

to see, what bullets do, check this out and read the data sheet etc carefully:
http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm

The only way to reliably stop beast or man is to disrupt the central nervous system (brain-stem or spine shot). If you hit there, any caliber from .22lr up will do. As you mentioned right, even a .308 hit somewhere else does not reliably drop anything. We are still all waiting for captain kirks stun-phasers to hit the civil makret...
 
There seem to be many different ideas of what "stopping power" is. Some people think that bigger bullets mean more stopping power, while others think that more penetration is better. Personally, I think of stopping power as the time derivative of momentum (i.e. force) exerted on the target by the round. Of course, that means nothing if you can't hit the target. So I suggest picking the highest power round/platform combination that is comfortable for you to shoot. By "power" I mean highest momentum (mass * velocity).

Look over the link Para Bellum posted. It has some useful information in it, although I think the .40 cal rounds used were a little underpowered. The reported velocity is nowhere near what reloading manuals say it should be.
 
All handgun calibers are weak stoppers. You cannot count on stopping an assailant with only one or two shots. That is why you must continue to shoot and hit until your attacker ceases his attack. There are accounts of people being shot through the heart with a .375 magnum who nontheless continue to fight and kill their attacker.

The story of Stacy Lin comes to mine. She was a Los Angeles policewoman who while off-duty was shot in the heart with a .357 by a would be car-jacker. She was able to draw her Beretta 9mm, chase down her attacker and then kill him. Amazingly, Ms Lin survived her wound and I believe she returned to duty. A determined attacker can continue the assault for a surprising length of time even after being hit by high velocity rifle rounds. Only a hit to the brain or the spine bring about an instant stop.
 
No offense intended to the people that respond to this thread, but stopping power is myth, and a topic that will be argued forever and ever with out an answer that will satisfy everyone.

Talking about stopping power is almost as pointless as the caliber wars.

This is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions :p !
 
If you watched some of the police officer deaths posted elsewhere in this forum you will see an officer put 5 shots into center of mass (don't know caliber or gun) and the BG is fine. The officer dies within minutes from shots from a derringer, but when the backup arrives they can still TALK to the BG! After 5 shots in his body! Definately +1 for shot placement over caliber... but this would be a case for .45ACP.

Yes I posted about shooting a deer this year right in the heart with my Remington 700 VS .308. Split the heart into a V shape. And it STILL ran.
 
As was earlier stated, a shot to the brain stem will immediately incapacitate a person, and it is the only sure way to shoot a BG who is holding a gun to a hostage's head, for instance.

Other than that, a center of mass shot with a shotgun with 12 gage 00, 000, or Door Breaching round will stop a BG dead on his/her track.
 
Deer and Zombies etc

Thats good and long reading (for any caliber actually):
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/


here's an excerpt:

Often we see makers, backyard experts and others shooting things like a rib roast, a slab of beef or other strange food items (our favorite is fruit) and attempting to compare these results to results in human tissue. We also see people comparing deer results with results they expect in humans. "I killed a dozen deer with it... it must be a man stopper."

This is, unfortunately, folly. Deer, to begin with, have SUBSTANTIALLY different anatomies than humans (surprise surprise). The distance in tissue to vital organs is different, bone density is different, the location and strength of CNS structures is different, as is the vascular system. Further, because the CNS structures of deer are somewhat more primitive and less intricate than those of humans, they are far less fragile in some places, far more fragile in others. What works in deer may or may not work in humans. The same goes for hogs, varmints, pigs, dogs, zombies (headshots only please), and aliens (particularly grey skins- go for the big eyes, not center mass).
Click to expand...
 
Most Toys Wins has the correct answer. There is no such thing as stopping power only stopping and non stopping shots.

nandoaqui,
I really hate to disappoint you but but a charge of 00 to COM has failed to stop (range 12 feet) and so has a rifled slug through COM from 25 yards.

Bust the punkin(correctly) or the spine(above the shoulder) and they stop shooting. Nothing else will save your life.

Sam
 
In most cases, if someone gets shot by a 9mm, they aren't going to just brush it off and say "Oww, that hurts!" Most likely, they will be either dead or wounded and out of the fight. I don't see anyone who says that any caliber not starting with a "4" isn't good enough volunteering to get shot by a 9mm, .38 or .22 to prove their point. :p
Sure a .45 may do some more damage, but hell, if you are just having a gun for self-protection on the streets, who or what are you really expecting to come across where a 9mm won't do?
If you are military or SWAT and are going after groups of more vicious people, possibly on drugs and in armor...okay, I see the point of wanting more power just to be safe.
Overall, you should choose the weapon and caliber that you are comfortable with and are effective with.
 
I have been carrying my G27. I'm pretty confidant with it. I am also branching out my options by carrying a S&W .357 Snub-nose scandium. I worry a five shot capacity is not enough. My focus is not really the streets or even my home. Its my job. Retail wine & spirits. I'm worried about two or three gang bangers. Anyone have any additional advice?
 
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