StiveC2007
New member
I have an opportunity to buy a stoger over under condor 12/20 ga shotgun i was wondering if anyone has a opinion on these shotguns so any information would be appreciated
Stoger Shotguns
- Thread starter StiveC2007
- Start date
the rifleer
New member
Stoger is made by Benelli. Benelli currently makes some of the best shotguns around. I dont have one and have never shot one, but i have heard good things about them.
rantingredneck
New member
My Father in law has a Stoeger Condor I in 12 ga. I've shot a few boxes through it over the years in a dove field. Handled well, shot where I pointed it.
They do not have ejectors though. Only extractors. If you're planning to use it for competition that'll get annoying fast.
Overall good gun for the money. Don't spend a whole lot on one used though because they only go for about 300-350 new around here.
(EDIT: I see you say it's a 12/20 so I assume it comes with 2 barrel sets, that will make it a little above the 300-350 price I quoted)
They do not have ejectors though. Only extractors. If you're planning to use it for competition that'll get annoying fast.
Overall good gun for the money. Don't spend a whole lot on one used though because they only go for about 300-350 new around here.
(EDIT: I see you say it's a 12/20 so I assume it comes with 2 barrel sets, that will make it a little above the 300-350 price I quoted)
rantingredneck
New member
Forgot to mention that I've had a strange attraction to their Condor Outback 20" O/U but haven't yet been able to justify the purchase. I've got so many other shotguns around that I can't find a niche that the O/U would fill that isn't already filled by something else.
RetiredLawman
New member
FYI, the Stoeger Condor and Outback is not made by Benelli. It is contracted to a Brazilian company, ER Armintino, and made to a profit margin. Their quality is fair to good. It appears that most of their problems come from the combos due to the fact that barrels on doubles have to be hand fitted. There is not enough profit to spend much time on fitting, thus there are more headspacing problems with combos, due to fitting two sets of barrels to one frame.
In my opinion they are a risky investment. Probably 6 or 7 out of 10 of them have some issues ( point of impact may be different between top and bottom barrels, some have trigger and/or firing pin issues ( doubling, etc), I've seen some with rib issues....ribs breaking. I've seen extractors break ...
They are not built to a standard where you can expect at least 10,000 shells thru them with no issues.
In general - Browning and Beretta both make some good entry level O/U's in the $ 1,500 price range. They both make some solid O/U's in the $2,500 - $4,000 price range ( and its not always about fancy wood ). You have to ask yourself what is different if you get much below the B guns entry price - durability, quality of steel, craftmanship, etc.
If you're looking for an inexpensive O/U - other than used Browning or Berettas - I would suggest Ruger. They have had issues as well - but I see far less with them than most others.
They are not built to a standard where you can expect at least 10,000 shells thru them with no issues.
In general - Browning and Beretta both make some good entry level O/U's in the $ 1,500 price range. They both make some solid O/U's in the $2,500 - $4,000 price range ( and its not always about fancy wood ). You have to ask yourself what is different if you get much below the B guns entry price - durability, quality of steel, craftmanship, etc.
If you're looking for an inexpensive O/U - other than used Browning or Berettas - I would suggest Ruger. They have had issues as well - but I see far less with them than most others.
IMHO, ejectors just get in the way in a traditional comp gun. Most comp shooters don't want their hulls tossed all over the place, they go into a hull pouch. Consequently it's not unusual to disable the ejectors on comp guns. On the other hand, ejectors aid quick reloading while hunting.rantingredneck said:
In my opinion these can be one of the best values for the bottom level guns. The range I belong to now has several. These are used as loaner guns for folks who do not have a gun to shoot at trap. The 12ga is having issues right now with the saftey snapping on after the first shot but in its defence I do not think it has been cleaned or maintained in several years and 1000s of rounds.
They are not of the highest quality for sure but given they are about the lowest price O/U that you can find they will do the job.
As others have pointed out they are not like the entry level B-guns where you know that you are going to get a good one no matter which model. A Stoeger may have issues as addressed. In my opinion they are much better then the other entry level O/U like Mossberg and Remington offer. I know of several shooters who have them and they are all happy with them.
Many will come on and say that you would be better off buying a used B-gun of some type and they are correct, but not everyone has or is willing to part with that type of $. Unfortunatly it is just a fact of life, spend more in this case and get more. A Chevy Cobalt (insert low priced car of choice here) will get you the same place as a Mercedes or (insert highend car of choice) but one will do it more comfortably and will last you longer.
It is up to you to decide where your needs lie.
They are not of the highest quality for sure but given they are about the lowest price O/U that you can find they will do the job.
As others have pointed out they are not like the entry level B-guns where you know that you are going to get a good one no matter which model. A Stoeger may have issues as addressed. In my opinion they are much better then the other entry level O/U like Mossberg and Remington offer. I know of several shooters who have them and they are all happy with them.
Many will come on and say that you would be better off buying a used B-gun of some type and they are correct, but not everyone has or is willing to part with that type of $. Unfortunatly it is just a fact of life, spend more in this case and get more. A Chevy Cobalt (insert low priced car of choice here) will get you the same place as a Mercedes or (insert highend car of choice) but one will do it more comfortably and will last you longer.
It is up to you to decide where your needs lie.
I've had a Stoeger Condor 12 ga. for a couple years now, and it works fine. I haven't had the firing pin problems that others report.
My main gripe is the difficulty in getting the bores clean after shooting, because of the rough area in the bore just past the chamber. It holds powder residue like a trap, and it takes a LOT of brushing to get it out.
Just when I think I've got it all, and run a patch all the way through, it
coughs up more fouling and it gets dragged down the length of the bore.
Grrrrrr. Otherwise, it is a great O/U for the money.
My main gripe is the difficulty in getting the bores clean after shooting, because of the rough area in the bore just past the chamber. It holds powder residue like a trap, and it takes a LOT of brushing to get it out.
Just when I think I've got it all, and run a patch all the way through, it
coughs up more fouling and it gets dragged down the length of the bore.
Grrrrrr. Otherwise, it is a great O/U for the money.
rantingredneck
New member
That makes sense and as a hunter (non-competitor) it seems as if I'm projecting my annoyance with extractors only
.jaymce,
I agree with what you said - everyone has budgets - and spending more money does not always mean you will get a better gun.
The problem is I see a lot of gun shops selling guns, and telling customers, that ( pick any model or mfg ) are just as good as the" B " guns ....and 6 or 7 out of 10 times, they just aren't.
On this forun - you will see me preach " Fit " as the number one issue - and what many new shooters, and gun shops don't know, is shotguns are not one size fits all. If it won't hit where you look - it does not fit - and it doesn't matter who made it. Most guns can be made to fit - with some stock adjustments - but some make the gun look pretty ugly. Some designs, by Browning and Beretta, and driven by marketing - and they just don't fit very many people. I understand its about new stuff / selling more guns etc - but sometimes getting back to the basic fit issues - long before anyone picks a mfg is really more important - and often neglected.
Some gun shops sales guys and shooters think buying a $ 600 O/U is smarter than an "B" gun because they thing too many guys that shoot B guns are full of themselves. I see a lot of guys spending $ 500 - $ 1,000 on a gun - get real dissapointed because the guns don't hold up, have mechanical issues, etc / and sometimes, rather than buy a cheap O/U they could have bought a good serviceable pump gun instead - and saved their money to really buy the gun that will last them a lifetime in a couple of years.
For some reason guys understand a Chevy Cobalt is not a Lexus .....but at least the Chevy has a warranty - and can probably be fixed and run for awhile. Some of the problems I see on these cheap O/U's can't really be fixed - like when the top barrel shoots 6" high and 3" to the right at 20 yards / and bottom barrel is 2" low and 2" left at 20 yards .... so unfortunately, I think some of these guns may be a complete waste of money -unless you get lucky and get one of the 3 or 4 out of 10 that are not too bad. I just can't tell by looking at them in a gunstore...I need to shoot them ....and then its too late.
I agree with what you said - everyone has budgets - and spending more money does not always mean you will get a better gun.
The problem is I see a lot of gun shops selling guns, and telling customers, that ( pick any model or mfg ) are just as good as the" B " guns ....and 6 or 7 out of 10 times, they just aren't.
On this forun - you will see me preach " Fit " as the number one issue - and what many new shooters, and gun shops don't know, is shotguns are not one size fits all. If it won't hit where you look - it does not fit - and it doesn't matter who made it. Most guns can be made to fit - with some stock adjustments - but some make the gun look pretty ugly. Some designs, by Browning and Beretta, and driven by marketing - and they just don't fit very many people. I understand its about new stuff / selling more guns etc - but sometimes getting back to the basic fit issues - long before anyone picks a mfg is really more important - and often neglected.
Some gun shops sales guys and shooters think buying a $ 600 O/U is smarter than an "B" gun because they thing too many guys that shoot B guns are full of themselves. I see a lot of guys spending $ 500 - $ 1,000 on a gun - get real dissapointed because the guns don't hold up, have mechanical issues, etc / and sometimes, rather than buy a cheap O/U they could have bought a good serviceable pump gun instead - and saved their money to really buy the gun that will last them a lifetime in a couple of years.
For some reason guys understand a Chevy Cobalt is not a Lexus .....but at least the Chevy has a warranty - and can probably be fixed and run for awhile. Some of the problems I see on these cheap O/U's can't really be fixed - like when the top barrel shoots 6" high and 3" to the right at 20 yards / and bottom barrel is 2" low and 2" left at 20 yards .... so unfortunately, I think some of these guns may be a complete waste of money -unless you get lucky and get one of the 3 or 4 out of 10 that are not too bad. I just can't tell by looking at them in a gunstore...I need to shoot them ....and then its too late.
StiveC2007
New member
i found out today its the side by side 12/20 my bad but if anyone has anything else about the side by side please let me kno its looking like im only about to spend only 250 on it NIB and i dont have 1000 dollars or more to spend also i already have a 20ga side by side i got from my grandpa its a J stevens since i have that should i not even bother to get another one
RetiredLawman
New member
SXS's are easier to fit than O/Us and IMO, give less headspacing problems when changing barrels.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
my SXS 'Coach Gun' shoots lots better than the price of it.
I did have a problem with the cocking pin in the forearm it just rests on wood and the stiff firing spring had caused the pin to depress the wood so's it would not cock on left bbl.
I pulled it down and filed the head of 2 tacks square to fit the holes and drove it home problem solved.
mine is choked improved cyl r.bbl and modified l.bbl, I'm fond of it the other SXS's I've owned had either full/full or modified/full.
I did have a problem with the cocking pin in the forearm it just rests on wood and the stiff firing spring had caused the pin to depress the wood so's it would not cock on left bbl.
I pulled it down and filed the head of 2 tacks square to fit the holes and drove it home problem solved.
mine is choked improved cyl r.bbl and modified l.bbl, I'm fond of it the other SXS's I've owned had either full/full or modified/full.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I am dying to get one of the side by sides. I have no legitimate need for it, so I have to wait until I have some squander money.
I have picked up a few and handled them and the finish was much better than I would expect at that price range.
I can't speak to head spacing as I don't have a gauge or anything and obviously did not fire them, but the things I could visually inspect looked good.
I have picked up a few and handled them and the finish was much better than I would expect at that price range.
I can't speak to head spacing as I don't have a gauge or anything and obviously did not fire them, but the things I could visually inspect looked good.